TRISH CLOWES - Navigating Her Own Course
This is the second in our ‘saxophone trio’ series of interviews, and features Trish Clowes.
One of the great joys for me in the last twelve months is discovering the work of saxophonist and composer, Trish Clowes. With the release of her third album, Pocket Compass, on the jazz indie label Basho Records, Clowes continues to show that she is fast developing a highly individual approach in both her playing and writing and establishing herself as one of the most important musicians of her generation.
As she comes to the end of her two year period as BBC Radio 3 New generation Artist, Pocket Compass finds the saxophonist continuing her work with her longstanding group, Tangent, along with the BBC Concert Orchestra, and now the dust has settled on the initial euphoria of hearing the new recording, it seems an ideal time to catch up with Trish.
One of the great joys for me in the last twelve months is discovering the work of saxophonist and composer, Trish Clowes. With the release of her third album, Pocket Compass, on the jazz indie label Basho Records, Clowes continues to show that she is fast developing a highly individual approach in both her playing and writing and establishing herself as one of the most important musicians of her generation.
As she comes to the end of her two year period as BBC Radio 3 New generation Artist, Pocket Compass finds the saxophonist continuing her work with her longstanding group, Tangent, along with the BBC Concert Orchestra, and now the dust has settled on the initial euphoria of hearing the new recording, it seems an ideal time to catch up with Trish.
Perhaps I have lagged behind the times a bit, but when Clowes’ new album arrived for review it was my first encounter with her music. I had passed up the opportunity to hear her previous album, And In The Night-Time She Is There, having given the reviewing duties to Euan Dixon (my loss was his gain).
Almost immediately, when listening to Pocket Compass I was convinced that I was listening to one of the most important new voices in jazz, and made a mental note to catch up her previous work and set out to interview Trish, and talk to her about her work. Naturally enough, we start our conversation with the new album. “Pocket Compass pays homage to honesty, staying on course, hearing those words of gold-dust from your mentors in your head - and believing them” explains Trish.
Almost immediately, when listening to Pocket Compass I was convinced that I was listening to one of the most important new voices in jazz, and made a mental note to catch up her previous work and set out to interview Trish, and talk to her about her work. Naturally enough, we start our conversation with the new album. “Pocket Compass pays homage to honesty, staying on course, hearing those words of gold-dust from your mentors in your head - and believing them” explains Trish.
“I titled the album after recording it, I feel as though the album is a culmination of a lot of things that have been going on in my head, developing musically for some time… and I continue to be massively inspired by the work of Mr Shorter – for me he shows the way… I don’t strive to sound like him necessarily (although his soprano playing is utterly spell-binding – check out “1+1”) - well, maybe I do a bit!” she laughs. “But it’s not really about that. Wayne makes me want to speak my truth with my sound, my playing. I don’t want to waste one note. I feel the same with my writing – and with both these things, this is also about giving the other musicians a great platform to spring off from. Someone said to me recently that ‘really, to be a composer you’ve got to be a control freak’ – I don’t believe that at all!!!”
One of the things that marks Clowes’ work out as something special is that all three albums recorded for Basho Records all have a different feel and concept to them, whilst at the same time are unmistakably from the same pen. So I ask Trish if this was a conscious decision on her part? “Not particularly, although if you’ve written a set of music at a certain time, I guess it’s natural that it all comes from a certain place, a reflection of where your head is at” says Trish. “Certainly when I made my first record I wanted as many musicians as possibly from the larger tracks to guest in other places on the record. Because, unlike my latest record, most of the people in the orchestra on Tangent are really good friends, or good friends of good friends! People who were giving me their time to help me realise my dream. And actually it is thanks to all those people that I have had all these wonderful opportunities this year.
“But to get back to the question, I think when you’re putting records together, you use the tracks you’ve recorded (whether you use them all or not!) to create something that sits right for you and the listener – or I guess, the journey you want the listener to go on. The order is incredibly important. I don’t buy into all this ‘people just listen on shuffle’ nonsense. When people listen to my records I hope they hear the care, the love.” Continuing, she adds “I guess another thing which is important to me, is that when I do have guests to add to the colour of the textures, I’ve always encouraged everyone to take on some form of improvising. It doesn’t need to be of a certain language, it’s about introducing them to that freedom, it opens up the music in a different way, invites them into the world of the ‘jazzers’, makes them feel that their musical decisions are valued.”
As each of the albums has an identity and life of its own, there is also a sense of development and moving forward from one album to the next, so I ask Trish how she prepares for a new recording, and how she thinks her playing have evolved between each recording? “Oh gosh, I’m probably not the best person to ask about how my music’s developed” she says, ,” but preparing for a new recording… well, it’s being ready to have something to say. Interestingly, when I was thinking about my third album, I hadn’t quite worked out what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to heavily feature the quintet but I wasn’t sure of the context, or whether it would be just us… and that’s when I was presented with the opportunity to work with the BBC Concert Orchestra – so that worked out pretty well!”
One of the things that marks Clowes’ work out as something special is that all three albums recorded for Basho Records all have a different feel and concept to them, whilst at the same time are unmistakably from the same pen. So I ask Trish if this was a conscious decision on her part? “Not particularly, although if you’ve written a set of music at a certain time, I guess it’s natural that it all comes from a certain place, a reflection of where your head is at” says Trish. “Certainly when I made my first record I wanted as many musicians as possibly from the larger tracks to guest in other places on the record. Because, unlike my latest record, most of the people in the orchestra on Tangent are really good friends, or good friends of good friends! People who were giving me their time to help me realise my dream. And actually it is thanks to all those people that I have had all these wonderful opportunities this year.
“But to get back to the question, I think when you’re putting records together, you use the tracks you’ve recorded (whether you use them all or not!) to create something that sits right for you and the listener – or I guess, the journey you want the listener to go on. The order is incredibly important. I don’t buy into all this ‘people just listen on shuffle’ nonsense. When people listen to my records I hope they hear the care, the love.” Continuing, she adds “I guess another thing which is important to me, is that when I do have guests to add to the colour of the textures, I’ve always encouraged everyone to take on some form of improvising. It doesn’t need to be of a certain language, it’s about introducing them to that freedom, it opens up the music in a different way, invites them into the world of the ‘jazzers’, makes them feel that their musical decisions are valued.”
As each of the albums has an identity and life of its own, there is also a sense of development and moving forward from one album to the next, so I ask Trish how she prepares for a new recording, and how she thinks her playing have evolved between each recording? “Oh gosh, I’m probably not the best person to ask about how my music’s developed” she says, ,” but preparing for a new recording… well, it’s being ready to have something to say. Interestingly, when I was thinking about my third album, I hadn’t quite worked out what I wanted to do. I knew I wanted to heavily feature the quintet but I wasn’t sure of the context, or whether it would be just us… and that’s when I was presented with the opportunity to work with the BBC Concert Orchestra – so that worked out pretty well!”
Both Pocket Compass and your debut album feature large ensembles, as opposed to the string quartet on the second. Is the larger orchestral setting you prefer writing for? Pondering the question, Trish replies “It’s nothing to do with that really, it’s about the people around you, the opportunities at the time… what comes into your head. I’m really enjoying thinking about writing for my new trio at the moment (with Chris Montague on guitar and Ross Stanley on piano/Hammond organ). I guess, improvising-wise the smaller the setting the more intense the interaction can get… but I try to get this in any situation I work in.” Pocket Compass also presents us with the first opportunity to hear Trish’s soprano playing, something she has been keeping under wraps until now I ask? Laughing, Trish says “I’ve been working on it for a number of years – this is the first time I’ve felt ready to ‘put it out there’. It really has a life of its own that thing!” So after wrestling with the notoriously pitched straight horn, how does you view the difference between playing and composing, and do you have a preference? “In a way they are the same to me, but obviously each require their own type of focus/discipline. They bounce off each other. I realise that is a slightly vague answer… not intentional, just the way it is!” It must also be a bonus having a core group of musicians in Tangent that you can write for? Without hesitation Trish replies “ Absolutely. Those guys are so inspiring, I love hearing what they do with my tunes, developing/shifting over time, I’m honoured by the care they put into playing them. They make me write better music.”
The release of the new album also sees the end of the saxophonist’s tenure as a BBC Radio Three New Generation Artist. So did she have specific goals during this period, and did she fulfil her aims? “Yeah, I did make a list of goals actually, and I certainly achieved the ones at the top of the list, these being getting my festival Emulsion on the radio, working with orchestras and doing a vocal/strings project (with Norma Winstone).
But I also really enjoyed all the things that were suggested to me – in particular a Late Junction collaboration with violinist Donald Grant and director/actor Pete Cant; putting together studio sessions (one of which formed the trio with Ross and Chris); and working on the BBC Radio 3 Freethinking Festival with the Royal Northern Sinfonia.”
So what about influences I ask? “Hmmm, are you ready? I guess these are people who inspire me or whose playing/writing I love rather than people I think I sound like… Wayne Shorter, Joe Lovano, Lee Konitz, Iain Ballamy, Lester Young, more recently discovering Chris Cheek, John Adams, Bjork, Joni Mitchell, Kaija Saariaho, Witold Lutoslawski, Jerome Kern (I LOVE ‘nobody else but me’)… Also see my next answer! I’ve also been reading about Adolphe Sax and the invention of the saxophone recently – that is also highly inspirational stuff.”
How would you describe your music, as you seem happy to blur and not be constrained by stylistic boundaries or genres? “I always prefer other people’s descriptions of my music. That’s the fun bit, seeing how people react to it, what they get from it. I just play/write what I hear - there’s no getting away from the fact that we are a product of what has been around us. For me that was mucking around on the piano writing little tunes, my dad’s taste in Classical music (some of which I liked, some of which I didn’t!) working out things like ‘In the mood’ without really knowing what it was, singing/copying Ella Fitzgerald, playing the clarinet, discovering the saxophone and jazz, playing impressionistic music on the piano, the list goes on. So anyway, I like melody, I like interesting grooves (subtle or not!), I like quirky harmonies, I like to have freedom for personalities – and hopefully other people’s descriptions might get close to that!”
So with a successful and eventful two years a BBC Radio New Generation Artist culminating in the release of the new album, what can we expect next? “Well, next up is quintet tour to launch Pocket Compass around the UK… (see Trish’s tour schedule for quintet below….Ed) so I’ll be doing a bit of writing for that, although obviously we’ll be mostly playing the tunes from the album. Trio writing (as mentioned above) – I’m taking them for a trip to Bremen, a project with Gwilym Simcock and the Heath Quartet for a concert at Wigmore Hall and writing a brass piece for Onyx Brass – oh and more Emulsion planning!ra ”
And finally, as we did in the interview with Laura Macdonald, a bit for the gear heads, perhaps you could tell us about your preference in saxophones? “Well, you’ve caught me at an interesting time as I’m just changing my instruments completely!” she says “With the help of a special expert in the field, I’ve just bought a Selmer Mark VI Tenor from about 1957/58 (about 10 years older than the one I had before) and it is absolutely AMAZING. I’ve called the sax Shirley. She’s been re-lauqered at some point in history (though very tastefully) so she’s named after Shirley Eaton, the actress who played Jill Masterson in Goldfinger (the woman who was drenched in gold!) Also, a nice coincidence that Shirley Bassey sang the Goldfinger theme tune. However, she also has an alias ‘Maggie’ because according to a reliable source the girl drenched in gold in the opening credits is Maggie Nolan. This is getting silly now…” laughs Trish. “With this I’m using an Ed Pillinger mouthpiece (incredible craftsman living in North London) – a copy of an ebonite Otto Link ‘slant sig’ 7, a Vandoren ligature and traditional Vandoren reeds (Thank you Vandoren UK!).
“With the soprano, I’m just about to switch maker but I haven’t done it yet! And I have literally just bought an Otto Link Tone Edge Ebonite 7. Again I use a Vandoren ligature and reeds. On Pocket Compass and recent stuff, I’ve been playing a Series III Selmer and a Bari (the make not the type!) mouthpiece.
The release of the new album also sees the end of the saxophonist’s tenure as a BBC Radio Three New Generation Artist. So did she have specific goals during this period, and did she fulfil her aims? “Yeah, I did make a list of goals actually, and I certainly achieved the ones at the top of the list, these being getting my festival Emulsion on the radio, working with orchestras and doing a vocal/strings project (with Norma Winstone).
But I also really enjoyed all the things that were suggested to me – in particular a Late Junction collaboration with violinist Donald Grant and director/actor Pete Cant; putting together studio sessions (one of which formed the trio with Ross and Chris); and working on the BBC Radio 3 Freethinking Festival with the Royal Northern Sinfonia.”
So what about influences I ask? “Hmmm, are you ready? I guess these are people who inspire me or whose playing/writing I love rather than people I think I sound like… Wayne Shorter, Joe Lovano, Lee Konitz, Iain Ballamy, Lester Young, more recently discovering Chris Cheek, John Adams, Bjork, Joni Mitchell, Kaija Saariaho, Witold Lutoslawski, Jerome Kern (I LOVE ‘nobody else but me’)… Also see my next answer! I’ve also been reading about Adolphe Sax and the invention of the saxophone recently – that is also highly inspirational stuff.”
How would you describe your music, as you seem happy to blur and not be constrained by stylistic boundaries or genres? “I always prefer other people’s descriptions of my music. That’s the fun bit, seeing how people react to it, what they get from it. I just play/write what I hear - there’s no getting away from the fact that we are a product of what has been around us. For me that was mucking around on the piano writing little tunes, my dad’s taste in Classical music (some of which I liked, some of which I didn’t!) working out things like ‘In the mood’ without really knowing what it was, singing/copying Ella Fitzgerald, playing the clarinet, discovering the saxophone and jazz, playing impressionistic music on the piano, the list goes on. So anyway, I like melody, I like interesting grooves (subtle or not!), I like quirky harmonies, I like to have freedom for personalities – and hopefully other people’s descriptions might get close to that!”
So with a successful and eventful two years a BBC Radio New Generation Artist culminating in the release of the new album, what can we expect next? “Well, next up is quintet tour to launch Pocket Compass around the UK… (see Trish’s tour schedule for quintet below….Ed) so I’ll be doing a bit of writing for that, although obviously we’ll be mostly playing the tunes from the album. Trio writing (as mentioned above) – I’m taking them for a trip to Bremen, a project with Gwilym Simcock and the Heath Quartet for a concert at Wigmore Hall and writing a brass piece for Onyx Brass – oh and more Emulsion planning!ra ”
And finally, as we did in the interview with Laura Macdonald, a bit for the gear heads, perhaps you could tell us about your preference in saxophones? “Well, you’ve caught me at an interesting time as I’m just changing my instruments completely!” she says “With the help of a special expert in the field, I’ve just bought a Selmer Mark VI Tenor from about 1957/58 (about 10 years older than the one I had before) and it is absolutely AMAZING. I’ve called the sax Shirley. She’s been re-lauqered at some point in history (though very tastefully) so she’s named after Shirley Eaton, the actress who played Jill Masterson in Goldfinger (the woman who was drenched in gold!) Also, a nice coincidence that Shirley Bassey sang the Goldfinger theme tune. However, she also has an alias ‘Maggie’ because according to a reliable source the girl drenched in gold in the opening credits is Maggie Nolan. This is getting silly now…” laughs Trish. “With this I’m using an Ed Pillinger mouthpiece (incredible craftsman living in North London) – a copy of an ebonite Otto Link ‘slant sig’ 7, a Vandoren ligature and traditional Vandoren reeds (Thank you Vandoren UK!).
“With the soprano, I’m just about to switch maker but I haven’t done it yet! And I have literally just bought an Otto Link Tone Edge Ebonite 7. Again I use a Vandoren ligature and reeds. On Pocket Compass and recent stuff, I’ve been playing a Series III Selmer and a Bari (the make not the type!) mouthpiece.
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For more information you can check out Trish’s website and tour dates by clicking the image on the right.
To read our review of Pocket Compass click on the album covers below. 
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