TORD GUSTAVSEN - The Paradoxical Virtuosity Of Sensual Minimalism
Interview by Chris Baber
It has been eleven years since Gustavsen released the third of a set of captivating trio recordings that JazzTimes described as “distilled magic”. During the intervening period he has recorded with a quartet and worked with electronics and vocals, but is now back with a new trio. The title of the CD, ‘The Other Side’, could reflect a contrast to this recent work and a turning to the other side of his approach to music making, in the trio format. But the title could equally well reflect “…the way the trio plays as being the other side of virtuosity, a kind of paradoxical virtuosity where you don’t play all the notes you can but merely the notes that are really needed. It’s about subordinating your ego to the flow of the music – and that takes a kind of radical listening – listen more than you play. That’s a passion the three of us share.”
The earlier trio featured Harald Johnsen bass. “Harald Johnsen sadly passed away – tragically early. It did not feel right to just form a new trio with a different bass player at that time. And then, the quartet and ensemble featuring Tore Brunborg on saxophones became such a strong unit in itself that it demanded a full circle of an album trilogy and years of touring. And I think I evolved a lot as a soloist, composer and ensemble player during that time. Then, the project with Simin Tander and Jarle Vespestad for the album “What was said” was to me the strongest of them all in terms of musical-spiritual concept and live format. The interplay with both Brunborg and Tander will continue, so it’s not like I have now ‘changed back’ – rather, I have opened another chapter in my trio playing parallel to the other formats. I did not long for the trio during those years. I value interplay just as much as soloing, and I felt so blessed to be allowed to play with my absolute favourite musicians on all the instruments and develop music over time with them. Still, it felt right to do a trio recording now. It hadn’t felt right before – because of respect towards the late Harald Johnsen, because of the fact that I deeply cherished the other ensemble formats, and because it was not easy to find the right way to do trio playing again. I had to wait until it could just come naturally, unforced – I had to wait until I stopped asking myself how to do it, how to play something that is as good as the first trio while also moving beyond it and taking things further, and instead being able to just do it without thinking too hard.” In Sigurd Hole the trio have found a bass player that maintains the feel of the music and the total integration of the trio, while offering new opportunities. “Sigurd has a natural way of injecting modal Norwegian folk melodies into the music that makes the group’s connection to these roots stronger.”
In referring to the connection to these roots, Gustavsen says “The old Norwegian lullabies and dance forms find their way in now almost without us thinking about it” and has previously described his work as ‘Nordic blues’. However, ‘Nordic Blues’ is “…but one of many relevant ways to describe the music. ‘Abstract gospel’, ‘wordless hymns’, and many other terms could also be used. In any case, the music is about trying to strip things down to what’s actually needed, and allowing the musical organism to bloom and grow without forcing it – a kind of sensual minimalism, as opposed to a strict minimalism. The ‘Nordic Blues’ can indeed be found in what we do – the scales and modes we explore, are often bitonal and ambiguous when it comes to major / minor duality – like the blues – and these modes are often found in Scandinavian folk music. Furthermore, the music has a certain sparseness and melancholy that resonates with many people’s perception of Norwegian nature and mentality. And lastly, but most importantly – the music feels highly emotional to me – in a way like the blues, although with more restraint in how it comes across; it explores very basic emotions like longing and sorrow, but also a deeply glowing, slowly pulsating joy.” This sense of deep glowing, slowly pulsating joy comes across in all of the pieces on the CD and is something that pianist and drummer have been developing for many years. “Early on, in our playing of ballads, we [Gustavsen and Vespestad] discovered this sense of micro-timing, and loaded minimalism – the feeling that the less we play, the stronger it gets – and this sense has evolved ever since. Now, we are also stretching out and using more dynamics, but this fundamental experience of ‘essence’ and reduction is always our point of departure. Jarle can groove in such an understated way and play so quietly that all the timbres of the piano can be heard. That said he has such technical ability. A funny thing is that he’s so attuned to the lyricism in the trios’ music that I can often hear him humming the melody as he plays. That’s rare for a drummer and something that, as a composer, I find touching.”
It has been eleven years since Gustavsen released the third of a set of captivating trio recordings that JazzTimes described as “distilled magic”. During the intervening period he has recorded with a quartet and worked with electronics and vocals, but is now back with a new trio. The title of the CD, ‘The Other Side’, could reflect a contrast to this recent work and a turning to the other side of his approach to music making, in the trio format. But the title could equally well reflect “…the way the trio plays as being the other side of virtuosity, a kind of paradoxical virtuosity where you don’t play all the notes you can but merely the notes that are really needed. It’s about subordinating your ego to the flow of the music – and that takes a kind of radical listening – listen more than you play. That’s a passion the three of us share.”
The earlier trio featured Harald Johnsen bass. “Harald Johnsen sadly passed away – tragically early. It did not feel right to just form a new trio with a different bass player at that time. And then, the quartet and ensemble featuring Tore Brunborg on saxophones became such a strong unit in itself that it demanded a full circle of an album trilogy and years of touring. And I think I evolved a lot as a soloist, composer and ensemble player during that time. Then, the project with Simin Tander and Jarle Vespestad for the album “What was said” was to me the strongest of them all in terms of musical-spiritual concept and live format. The interplay with both Brunborg and Tander will continue, so it’s not like I have now ‘changed back’ – rather, I have opened another chapter in my trio playing parallel to the other formats. I did not long for the trio during those years. I value interplay just as much as soloing, and I felt so blessed to be allowed to play with my absolute favourite musicians on all the instruments and develop music over time with them. Still, it felt right to do a trio recording now. It hadn’t felt right before – because of respect towards the late Harald Johnsen, because of the fact that I deeply cherished the other ensemble formats, and because it was not easy to find the right way to do trio playing again. I had to wait until it could just come naturally, unforced – I had to wait until I stopped asking myself how to do it, how to play something that is as good as the first trio while also moving beyond it and taking things further, and instead being able to just do it without thinking too hard.” In Sigurd Hole the trio have found a bass player that maintains the feel of the music and the total integration of the trio, while offering new opportunities. “Sigurd has a natural way of injecting modal Norwegian folk melodies into the music that makes the group’s connection to these roots stronger.”
In referring to the connection to these roots, Gustavsen says “The old Norwegian lullabies and dance forms find their way in now almost without us thinking about it” and has previously described his work as ‘Nordic blues’. However, ‘Nordic Blues’ is “…but one of many relevant ways to describe the music. ‘Abstract gospel’, ‘wordless hymns’, and many other terms could also be used. In any case, the music is about trying to strip things down to what’s actually needed, and allowing the musical organism to bloom and grow without forcing it – a kind of sensual minimalism, as opposed to a strict minimalism. The ‘Nordic Blues’ can indeed be found in what we do – the scales and modes we explore, are often bitonal and ambiguous when it comes to major / minor duality – like the blues – and these modes are often found in Scandinavian folk music. Furthermore, the music has a certain sparseness and melancholy that resonates with many people’s perception of Norwegian nature and mentality. And lastly, but most importantly – the music feels highly emotional to me – in a way like the blues, although with more restraint in how it comes across; it explores very basic emotions like longing and sorrow, but also a deeply glowing, slowly pulsating joy.” This sense of deep glowing, slowly pulsating joy comes across in all of the pieces on the CD and is something that pianist and drummer have been developing for many years. “Early on, in our playing of ballads, we [Gustavsen and Vespestad] discovered this sense of micro-timing, and loaded minimalism – the feeling that the less we play, the stronger it gets – and this sense has evolved ever since. Now, we are also stretching out and using more dynamics, but this fundamental experience of ‘essence’ and reduction is always our point of departure. Jarle can groove in such an understated way and play so quietly that all the timbres of the piano can be heard. That said he has such technical ability. A funny thing is that he’s so attuned to the lyricism in the trios’ music that I can often hear him humming the melody as he plays. That’s rare for a drummer and something that, as a composer, I find touching.”
As well as the debt to folk music, the album includes three Bach Chorales and a piece by 19th Century Danish composer Ludvig Mathias Linderman. I asked how the trio worked on the feeling in these particular pieces. “We didn’t really ‘work’ on it as much as trying to receive and cherish the impulses that came to us immediately when we approached these gorgeous melodies. To me, our approach is definitely ‘jazz’, in the sense that we treat the pieces as ‘standards’ – as melodies that may have had a composer, but that one treats freely and as a way of expressing oneself, rather than trying to bring a composer’s intentions to the front. And they are tunes that do indeed have texts – texts that one may or may not deal consciously with while playing them. I, for my part, definitely do think of the texts and often feel them quite directly while playing the Bach melodies. The three chorales on the album are strikingly different in temperament: “O, Traurigkeit” is a pure lament – about sadness and despair, but also about the potential beauty of surrendering to something bigger than yourself when feeling pain. “Jesus, meine Freude” is about deep, silent joy, and “Schlafes Bruder” is about death and about longing for eternal sleep, but paradoxically played with a very uplifting groove – it’s a quite funky version of Bach that expresses the hope and celebration just as much as the sadness. This version just kind of happened – it was not something I had strategically planned on doing – Jarle played such a fantastic groove, and I just found that this theme really fitted and the totally felt like a rich and meaningful universe.” I asked why religious music has formed so strong a part of his musical language. “I grew up with this music from very early on – it formed a core part of my musical and spiritual self. It is a constantly flowing source of inspiration and musical energy for me. Songs from these traditions are my deepest ‘standards’ as a jazz musician – they came to me long before I discovered the canon of American jazz standards. So, when I can unite my ‘stretching out’ with ‘reaching down’ and opening to the powers of these roots – I have a better chance of avoiding alienation and stiffness, and of moving forward in touch with my core energies and organic dispositions.” I asked whether there might be some clue as to how, as a pianist, he conveys so much emotion with such minimal shifts of effort and movement. “I cannot really answer that except saying that it is about trying to make real synthesis when blending intensity with coolness; surrendering with control; blooming emotions with clarity; in life and in music alike. This is really not easy, and one always has to work on it and try to make it happen anew.”
Given the breadth of musical influences that form the tapestry of sounds on this CD, I asked whether he had roles models that had inspired his musical development. “Not really any major models, except for Keith Jarrett and Bill Evans – who are leading inspirations for almost all piano players coming after them. I have to mention Swedish pianist Jan Johansson and Norwegian Jon Balke, though – they were both very important to me. Then, a few singers, trumpet players and specifically Wayne Shorter (both as a composer and an improviser) are just as important as piano players to me. And Bach, Ravel, Shostakovich. And some Persian music. And Nils Økland, the Norwegian fiddle master… Plus so many others…”
In closing I asked what he was looking forward to in the upcoming international tour. “I’m looking forward to the totality of it – the variation of venues from symphonic halls, churches, chamber halls to a few good clubs. This multi-faceted journey will probably be really good for our music and take our interplay to new landscapes. The London Jazz Festival concert (on November 16th) is of course a very special milestone, as it is such a huge venue; and as playing in London always feels special.”
Given the breadth of musical influences that form the tapestry of sounds on this CD, I asked whether he had roles models that had inspired his musical development. “Not really any major models, except for Keith Jarrett and Bill Evans – who are leading inspirations for almost all piano players coming after them. I have to mention Swedish pianist Jan Johansson and Norwegian Jon Balke, though – they were both very important to me. Then, a few singers, trumpet players and specifically Wayne Shorter (both as a composer and an improviser) are just as important as piano players to me. And Bach, Ravel, Shostakovich. And some Persian music. And Nils Økland, the Norwegian fiddle master… Plus so many others…”
In closing I asked what he was looking forward to in the upcoming international tour. “I’m looking forward to the totality of it – the variation of venues from symphonic halls, churches, chamber halls to a few good clubs. This multi-faceted journey will probably be really good for our music and take our interplay to new landscapes. The London Jazz Festival concert (on November 16th) is of course a very special milestone, as it is such a huge venue; and as playing in London always feels special.”
For more information visit Tord Gustavsen's website & ECM Records
Click on the album cover to read our review
TOUR DATES:
26 October: The Tower Digital Arts Centre, HELENSBURGH - http://www.helensburghboxoffice.com/showinfo.php?entryValue=ST00000814&siteCode=BAT
27 October: Howard Assembly Room, LEEDS - https://www.operanorth.co.uk/whats-on/tord-gustavsen/#details
28 October: Triskel ECM Weekend, Guinness CORK Jazz Festival - https://triskelartscentre.ie/festivals/triskel-ecm-weekend-at-the-guinness-cork-jazz-festival/
29 October: The Apex, BURY ST. EDMUNDS - https://www.theapex.co.uk/whats-on/details.cfm?id=382348&ins=492792
30 October: St. George’s, BRISTOL Keyboard Festival
- https://www.stgeorgesbristol.co.uk/event/keyboard-festival-tord-gustavsen-trio/
31 October: Warwick Arts Centre, COVENTRY - https://www.warwickartscentre.co.uk/whats-on/2018/tord-gustavsen-trio/
1 November: Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, CARDIFF - https://www.rwcmd.ac.uk/whats_on/events/tord_gustavsen_trio.aspx
2 November: Turner Sims, SOUTHAMPTON - https://www.turnersims.co.uk/events/tord-gustavsen-trio/
3 November: Lakeside Arts, NOTTINGHAM - https://www.lakesidearts.org.uk/music/event/3839/tord-gustaven-trio.html
16 November: Cadogan Hall, EFG LONDON Jazz Festival - https://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/tord-gustavsen-trio
26 October: The Tower Digital Arts Centre, HELENSBURGH - http://www.helensburghboxoffice.com/showinfo.php?entryValue=ST00000814&siteCode=BAT
27 October: Howard Assembly Room, LEEDS - https://www.operanorth.co.uk/whats-on/tord-gustavsen/#details
28 October: Triskel ECM Weekend, Guinness CORK Jazz Festival - https://triskelartscentre.ie/festivals/triskel-ecm-weekend-at-the-guinness-cork-jazz-festival/
29 October: The Apex, BURY ST. EDMUNDS - https://www.theapex.co.uk/whats-on/details.cfm?id=382348&ins=492792
30 October: St. George’s, BRISTOL Keyboard Festival
- https://www.stgeorgesbristol.co.uk/event/keyboard-festival-tord-gustavsen-trio/
31 October: Warwick Arts Centre, COVENTRY - https://www.warwickartscentre.co.uk/whats-on/2018/tord-gustavsen-trio/
1 November: Royal Welsh College of Music and Drama, CARDIFF - https://www.rwcmd.ac.uk/whats_on/events/tord_gustavsen_trio.aspx
2 November: Turner Sims, SOUTHAMPTON - https://www.turnersims.co.uk/events/tord-gustavsen-trio/
3 November: Lakeside Arts, NOTTINGHAM - https://www.lakesidearts.org.uk/music/event/3839/tord-gustaven-trio.html
16 November: Cadogan Hall, EFG LONDON Jazz Festival - https://efglondonjazzfestival.org.uk/events/tord-gustavsen-trio
