NIGEL HITCHCOCK & TINI THOMSEN - Hitchgnosis & Maxing The Sax
Saxophonist, Nigel Hitchcock, needs no introduction. Just anybody who listens to music of any genre will undoubtably have come across his playing. Whether on film soundtracks, TV adverts, or jazz, pop or classical records, Hitchcock has done them all.
He is first call saxophonist for studio sessions of every persuasion, and has an impressive CV including recording and touring with Kate Bush, Tom Jones, Ray Charles, Robbie Williams and Incognito, but it is his pedigree as jazz musician that is most impressive. A child prodigy and the youngest musician to join the ranks of the National Youth Jazz Orchestra at just eleven years old, he has built a career that has seen him mature into veteran of the UK scene and a fine composer. A dearth of recordings under his own name is more than made up for in terms of quality rather than quantity, and no more so than on his latest and most ambitious recording, Hitchgnosis.
It was therefore a real pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to Nigel about the album, and also to his life and musical partner, Tini Thomsen with whom he has been working with in her groups Q4 and MaxSax. Like Nigel, Tini is not one to hide her light under a bushel, and wielding the hefty baritone she plays with an intensity and energy that is highly infectious, deeply grooving and impossible to resist. She also is a sought after composer, having works performed by North German Radio Big Band (NDR) and Hessischer Rundfunk Bigband. She has also found time to record two albums of her own, Uphill Struggle with her saxophone quartet Q4 in 2018, and her third album, Shift, with her high-energy jazz-rock outfit, Max Sax in 2019.
He is first call saxophonist for studio sessions of every persuasion, and has an impressive CV including recording and touring with Kate Bush, Tom Jones, Ray Charles, Robbie Williams and Incognito, but it is his pedigree as jazz musician that is most impressive. A child prodigy and the youngest musician to join the ranks of the National Youth Jazz Orchestra at just eleven years old, he has built a career that has seen him mature into veteran of the UK scene and a fine composer. A dearth of recordings under his own name is more than made up for in terms of quality rather than quantity, and no more so than on his latest and most ambitious recording, Hitchgnosis.
It was therefore a real pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to Nigel about the album, and also to his life and musical partner, Tini Thomsen with whom he has been working with in her groups Q4 and MaxSax. Like Nigel, Tini is not one to hide her light under a bushel, and wielding the hefty baritone she plays with an intensity and energy that is highly infectious, deeply grooving and impossible to resist. She also is a sought after composer, having works performed by North German Radio Big Band (NDR) and Hessischer Rundfunk Bigband. She has also found time to record two albums of her own, Uphill Struggle with her saxophone quartet Q4 in 2018, and her third album, Shift, with her high-energy jazz-rock outfit, Max Sax in 2019.
Nigel, let's start with you most recent album, Hitchgnosis. A departure from some of your other recordings, can you tell a bit about the album and the concept behind it?
Well, as a jazz soloist I had spent much time delving deep into harmony and harmonic concepts, melody and rhythm, and I was starting to feel that I wanted a broader palette to express myself. One of my all time favourite albums has always been ‘Cityscape’, Claus Ogerman with Michael Brecker (my hero!) and the New York Phil. To hear the way MB roars around over those beautiful, lush voicings, while Steve Gadd just grooves away, well, it melts my heart every time. I don’t think I could ever get close to that kind of beauty, not as a player OR composer, but I had to try. So, I set to work, thinking about strings, woods and horns with a rhythm section. The very first thing I wrote was in fact the last 16 bars of Blaven Mist, the penultimate track. I wanted to try going from a basic triad (3 notes) to an 11 note chord over a pedal note. I think I taught myself a lot right there, and I got the bug to continue.
One of the tracks is an exception - ‘Hubbles View’ was actually written earlier, when Chris Dagley’s wife ran a beauty parlour. They were getting sick of ‘Running Water’ and ‘Birds of the Amazon’ CD’s that were the standard fare in those venues, and we were recording in the studio at the back. We did some meditative stuff for them and I wrote that on a JV1080 synth module, new to me then. Years later I literally printed out the score for the orchestra and was pleasantly surprised at my efforts. It was then that I conceived the idea of ‘Hitchgnosis’, literally pooling all the knowledge of music I had gained to that point and trying to show the truth and beauty of music in my own way. I know the album is dense with harmony, designed to wash over the soul and create intense emotion, and actually I can’t listen to more than a track or two at a time, I’m sure others feel the same. This is NOT an easy listening album!
You have written all of the music on Hitchgnosis, and have quite a reputation as a composer across different genre. Do you have a specific method when composing, setting time aside to do so, or it it more of a case of grabbing the ideas and notating them when they come to you?
To be honest I’m very lazy about writing. If I have a project in mind I may take some manuscript to bed with me. Often, just on the cusp of sleep, I get whole ‘packets’ of inspiration come through, sometimes an entire tune, which I quickly scribble down. The next day I try to remember the feeling again and start the 99% perspiration part of actually writing and orchestrating my scribbled ideas.
The idea of composition and improvisation are very different in approach. How do you manage to juggle the two disciplines of playing and composing?
Well, actually I try to make my improvisations more like instant compositions, and my tunes like written down improvisations so it all comes from the same ‘madness’. I do find it harder to improvise on my own tunes as I know every note, and am stuck in what I have written. I played one of mine once and when the solo backing came in I had to stop to listen to it, and didn’t want my solo to get in its way! So, I’m actually far better at making the right thing of someone else’s music. And I maintain that there is more art in crafting a great 8 bar pop solo than waffling over ’Stella by Starlight’ for 20 choruses, and I’m happy to do both.
Well, as a jazz soloist I had spent much time delving deep into harmony and harmonic concepts, melody and rhythm, and I was starting to feel that I wanted a broader palette to express myself. One of my all time favourite albums has always been ‘Cityscape’, Claus Ogerman with Michael Brecker (my hero!) and the New York Phil. To hear the way MB roars around over those beautiful, lush voicings, while Steve Gadd just grooves away, well, it melts my heart every time. I don’t think I could ever get close to that kind of beauty, not as a player OR composer, but I had to try. So, I set to work, thinking about strings, woods and horns with a rhythm section. The very first thing I wrote was in fact the last 16 bars of Blaven Mist, the penultimate track. I wanted to try going from a basic triad (3 notes) to an 11 note chord over a pedal note. I think I taught myself a lot right there, and I got the bug to continue.
One of the tracks is an exception - ‘Hubbles View’ was actually written earlier, when Chris Dagley’s wife ran a beauty parlour. They were getting sick of ‘Running Water’ and ‘Birds of the Amazon’ CD’s that were the standard fare in those venues, and we were recording in the studio at the back. We did some meditative stuff for them and I wrote that on a JV1080 synth module, new to me then. Years later I literally printed out the score for the orchestra and was pleasantly surprised at my efforts. It was then that I conceived the idea of ‘Hitchgnosis’, literally pooling all the knowledge of music I had gained to that point and trying to show the truth and beauty of music in my own way. I know the album is dense with harmony, designed to wash over the soul and create intense emotion, and actually I can’t listen to more than a track or two at a time, I’m sure others feel the same. This is NOT an easy listening album!
You have written all of the music on Hitchgnosis, and have quite a reputation as a composer across different genre. Do you have a specific method when composing, setting time aside to do so, or it it more of a case of grabbing the ideas and notating them when they come to you?
To be honest I’m very lazy about writing. If I have a project in mind I may take some manuscript to bed with me. Often, just on the cusp of sleep, I get whole ‘packets’ of inspiration come through, sometimes an entire tune, which I quickly scribble down. The next day I try to remember the feeling again and start the 99% perspiration part of actually writing and orchestrating my scribbled ideas.
The idea of composition and improvisation are very different in approach. How do you manage to juggle the two disciplines of playing and composing?
Well, actually I try to make my improvisations more like instant compositions, and my tunes like written down improvisations so it all comes from the same ‘madness’. I do find it harder to improvise on my own tunes as I know every note, and am stuck in what I have written. I played one of mine once and when the solo backing came in I had to stop to listen to it, and didn’t want my solo to get in its way! So, I’m actually far better at making the right thing of someone else’s music. And I maintain that there is more art in crafting a great 8 bar pop solo than waffling over ’Stella by Starlight’ for 20 choruses, and I’m happy to do both.
As a saxophonist you have also spent much time in the studio playing the music of others on sessions for TV, film and classical and pop records as well as jazz. As an improvising musician do you find you find it sometimes restrictive working on other people's scores and perhaps unable to bring you own personality and touch to the music, or is it just another discipline of being a working musician?
As a working musician the art is playing the music as the music demands. It would be ridiculous to play an ‘Ornette Coleman solo on a Take That track. It is about playing the perfect thing for the track, so self has to get out of the way. It is a great art for sure, any feelings of restriction should be pointers to the ’taste’ factor. When I was very young I wanted to get a bit of ‘me’ on everything I did, but I soon learnt to take pride in making good taste calls like ‘maybe this is a Stan Getz type thing, not a Brecker thing’. Desmond not Sanborn. I am called for that reason, whatever the style I can be trusted to play the right thing in the right way. It is quite ‘giving’ to choose to relinquish your own way of playing to make a track right. Obviously, it’s nice when Nigel Hitchcock is the only requirement, but then the challenge becomes knowing who that really is.
When you first emerged on the jazz scene you had quite a reputation as a child prodigy, quickly as a youngster finding yourself playing lead alto with NYJO. What got you interested in playing the saxophone, and jazz in particular?
My mother and grandmother played the piano, and my sisters played flute and violin and guitar. I was weaned on Jonny Mathis, Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, Wagner and Neil Diamond. There was always music around.
My older brother Clive had been playing clarinet and tenor sax for a couple of years when I started to learn alto from the same tutor, Vic Yates, at age eight. I loved it instantly, and my brother brought home albums of Johnny Griffin, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Count Basie, Jack Parnell, and I soaked it up. One day we heard a NYJO album and I was enthralled with Chris Hunter’s playing. I started to work out what he was playing. A couple of years later we got Bill Ashton’s contact and he said to bring the older one, and the younger one can come for the ride. I breezed through the stuff so became a regular member. I got a chance to regurgitate Hunter’s solos to the amusement of Mr Ashton. It was a great learning ground and many players on the UK scene had their start there.
As a working musician the art is playing the music as the music demands. It would be ridiculous to play an ‘Ornette Coleman solo on a Take That track. It is about playing the perfect thing for the track, so self has to get out of the way. It is a great art for sure, any feelings of restriction should be pointers to the ’taste’ factor. When I was very young I wanted to get a bit of ‘me’ on everything I did, but I soon learnt to take pride in making good taste calls like ‘maybe this is a Stan Getz type thing, not a Brecker thing’. Desmond not Sanborn. I am called for that reason, whatever the style I can be trusted to play the right thing in the right way. It is quite ‘giving’ to choose to relinquish your own way of playing to make a track right. Obviously, it’s nice when Nigel Hitchcock is the only requirement, but then the challenge becomes knowing who that really is.
When you first emerged on the jazz scene you had quite a reputation as a child prodigy, quickly as a youngster finding yourself playing lead alto with NYJO. What got you interested in playing the saxophone, and jazz in particular?
My mother and grandmother played the piano, and my sisters played flute and violin and guitar. I was weaned on Jonny Mathis, Herb Alpert and the Tijuana Brass, Wagner and Neil Diamond. There was always music around.
My older brother Clive had been playing clarinet and tenor sax for a couple of years when I started to learn alto from the same tutor, Vic Yates, at age eight. I loved it instantly, and my brother brought home albums of Johnny Griffin, Eddie Lockjaw Davis, Count Basie, Jack Parnell, and I soaked it up. One day we heard a NYJO album and I was enthralled with Chris Hunter’s playing. I started to work out what he was playing. A couple of years later we got Bill Ashton’s contact and he said to bring the older one, and the younger one can come for the ride. I breezed through the stuff so became a regular member. I got a chance to regurgitate Hunter’s solos to the amusement of Mr Ashton. It was a great learning ground and many players on the UK scene had their start there.
As well as your own projects and session work, you also play in a couple of bands with your partner, Tini. Firstly, can you tell us how you met and started playing together?
Tini: We met 10 minutes before an Incognito gig where a common acquaintance introduced us. It was the same band that we first shared the stage with, that means Nigel did the whole gig and I joined the horn section for an encore or two. Only after that we made plans to play more together which was followed by the reunion of the sax quartet Itchy Fingers and Nigel joining my band MaxSax.
The groups Q4 are MaxSax are both very different. Can you tell us about the two groups?
Tini: I start with the similarities: both Nigel and me are writing for both ensembles and that creates the unit sound of both groups. MaxSax is a Jazz(rock) band with drums, bass and guitar whereas Q4 is only saxophones (Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Baritone). In both groups we have created our personal comfort zone in terms of compositions.
You both compose for the groups, do you each write separately bringing finished compositions to the band, or do you collaborate on pieces together?
Nigel: We bring our own charts to the bands. Personally I’ve never understood collaborations. Lyrics and music maybe, but when composing I know exactly what I want and can’t imagine changing it. The thought of asking someone what the melody note, or next chord is, baffles me!
Tini: We do inspire each other during the writing process which I’m sure is a kind of collaboration. Also if I know that Nigel has written three ballads and a waltz, I would add some funky tunes to the program.
Can I ask you both about your influences as saxophonists, and composers?
Nigel: That’s easy. Michael Brecker, Brecker Bros, Steps Ahead and Dave Sanborn for saxophone. As a composer then Claus Ogerman, Stravinsky, and Lyle Mays.
Tini: As a saxophone player Doc Kupka (Tower of Power baritone legend), Ronny Cuber and Michael Brecker. As a composer Shostakovich, Ravel, Gil Evans and The Foo Fighters… and many more really.
Tini: We met 10 minutes before an Incognito gig where a common acquaintance introduced us. It was the same band that we first shared the stage with, that means Nigel did the whole gig and I joined the horn section for an encore or two. Only after that we made plans to play more together which was followed by the reunion of the sax quartet Itchy Fingers and Nigel joining my band MaxSax.
The groups Q4 are MaxSax are both very different. Can you tell us about the two groups?
Tini: I start with the similarities: both Nigel and me are writing for both ensembles and that creates the unit sound of both groups. MaxSax is a Jazz(rock) band with drums, bass and guitar whereas Q4 is only saxophones (Soprano, Alto, Tenor and Baritone). In both groups we have created our personal comfort zone in terms of compositions.
You both compose for the groups, do you each write separately bringing finished compositions to the band, or do you collaborate on pieces together?
Nigel: We bring our own charts to the bands. Personally I’ve never understood collaborations. Lyrics and music maybe, but when composing I know exactly what I want and can’t imagine changing it. The thought of asking someone what the melody note, or next chord is, baffles me!
Tini: We do inspire each other during the writing process which I’m sure is a kind of collaboration. Also if I know that Nigel has written three ballads and a waltz, I would add some funky tunes to the program.
Can I ask you both about your influences as saxophonists, and composers?
Nigel: That’s easy. Michael Brecker, Brecker Bros, Steps Ahead and Dave Sanborn for saxophone. As a composer then Claus Ogerman, Stravinsky, and Lyle Mays.
Tini: As a saxophone player Doc Kupka (Tower of Power baritone legend), Ronny Cuber and Michael Brecker. As a composer Shostakovich, Ravel, Gil Evans and The Foo Fighters… and many more really.
And what do you both listen to from pleasure? Do you have similar tastes?
Nigel: I rarely listen to music at all anymore to be honest. There’s enough notes flying around in my head as it is. And I’m so much into outputting what is in there I don’t need input stimulus too often. When I do I usually go to one of the above.
Tini: I like to check out what colleagues are doing, that kind of covers the capacity of taking in music for me.
With the current pandemic and live gigs cancelled for the foreseeable future, how are you coping with the enforced Lockdown? Have you been able to use the time to work on new projects or compositions?
Nigel:The lockdown (hate that word!) has meant internet recording is taking off big time, but the financial side of it has not caught up. So everyone is putting out self made albums, created for free. Not a sustainable template I feel. But still, it has given us time to prepare the next MaxSax album, and some big band stuff I’ve been putting off for a while. Otherwise we’re both enjoying the relaxed time, Tini gardening mostly.
Tini: I finally finished some compositions like a Baritone Solo Piece for the world class player Arno Bornkamp and lots of arranging for big band. And we recorded some videos at home for a TV station for example.
For the gearheads out there, can you both tell us about your sax set ups?
Nigel:Well, we are both Yamaha recording artists and endorsees. I play a YSS 82Z Custom soprano,YAS 82ZG Custom alto and YTS 82ZG Custom tenor, (the last two being gold plated). I played a Freddie Gregory hand made mouthpiece on alto for many years, including the Hitchgnosis project, but I needed something that took a little less effort as I spend more time writing than playing, so I’m now blowing a SAXZ from Japan. It’s the Nigel Hitchcock model, and I’m really loving it. I have a Dukoff on tenor, never played anything else. I like a smaller mouthpiece on soprano so have a Selmer E.
Tini: I play a Yamaha Baritone YBS-62E with a Berg Larsen ebonite 110/2/sms
And plans for the future?
Tini: Getting back to performing live concerts. Eat more broccoli. Eat less sugar.
Nigel: Try to finish some more pieces. And what she says, less broccoli, more sugar, right?
Nigel: I rarely listen to music at all anymore to be honest. There’s enough notes flying around in my head as it is. And I’m so much into outputting what is in there I don’t need input stimulus too often. When I do I usually go to one of the above.
Tini: I like to check out what colleagues are doing, that kind of covers the capacity of taking in music for me.
With the current pandemic and live gigs cancelled for the foreseeable future, how are you coping with the enforced Lockdown? Have you been able to use the time to work on new projects or compositions?
Nigel:The lockdown (hate that word!) has meant internet recording is taking off big time, but the financial side of it has not caught up. So everyone is putting out self made albums, created for free. Not a sustainable template I feel. But still, it has given us time to prepare the next MaxSax album, and some big band stuff I’ve been putting off for a while. Otherwise we’re both enjoying the relaxed time, Tini gardening mostly.
Tini: I finally finished some compositions like a Baritone Solo Piece for the world class player Arno Bornkamp and lots of arranging for big band. And we recorded some videos at home for a TV station for example.
For the gearheads out there, can you both tell us about your sax set ups?
Nigel:Well, we are both Yamaha recording artists and endorsees. I play a YSS 82Z Custom soprano,YAS 82ZG Custom alto and YTS 82ZG Custom tenor, (the last two being gold plated). I played a Freddie Gregory hand made mouthpiece on alto for many years, including the Hitchgnosis project, but I needed something that took a little less effort as I spend more time writing than playing, so I’m now blowing a SAXZ from Japan. It’s the Nigel Hitchcock model, and I’m really loving it. I have a Dukoff on tenor, never played anything else. I like a smaller mouthpiece on soprano so have a Selmer E.
Tini: I play a Yamaha Baritone YBS-62E with a Berg Larsen ebonite 110/2/sms
And plans for the future?
Tini: Getting back to performing live concerts. Eat more broccoli. Eat less sugar.
Nigel: Try to finish some more pieces. And what she says, less broccoli, more sugar, right?
Click on the album covers to read our reviews
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For more information visit nigelhitchcock.com & tinithomsen.de
