JON BALKE - Exploring The Unknown
Norwegian pianist/composer/bandleader/percussionist, Jon Balke, has long been a significant presence on the European stage, but somehow seems to be rather overlooked in the UK. As a member of the band Masqualero co-led with Arild Andersen and Jon Christensen he toured these shores playing music from their debut album, Bande À Part, but since then live appearances in Britain have been somewhat scarce.
Balke has an extensive discography with ECM Records which began when as still a teenager he recorded on Arild Andersen's Clouds In My Head recording in 1974. Since then, has been involved in a number of projects exploring music from around the world from big bands to trios, an ever-deepening interest in percussion and the fusion of European baroque with classical Andalusian Arabic poetry and music.
In addition, he has recorded three solo piano albums for the imprint each very different moving from the exclusive use of the acoustic properties of the piano on Book of Velocities to the introduction of electronics on two further albums. It was therefore my great pleasure to be able to talk to Jon about his music and the different projects that he has been involved with, and his continuing search in the unknown.
How did you become interested in music and first start playing?
I grew up in a musical family, so I have always played something. First accordion, then piano, then cello, piano again and the drums. My father was a musician, even though he worked as a teacher to raise his family. I had classical training until the age of 13, then dropped out of all that and played blues for many years. And then dived into jazz as an autodidact.
Who have been particular influences on you both as a player and also a composer?
As a player, definitely Paul Bley, but also everything Miles released. And I think I wanted to reproduce his sound on the piano. Impossible of course , but still a factor in shaping the attack on the instrument. Of composers I was sitting a a small child listening to Prokofiev with full focus, but of course in adult life: Messiaen, Stockhausen, Feldman, Nono, Sciarrino.... as well as Bach, forever an influence.
Balke has an extensive discography with ECM Records which began when as still a teenager he recorded on Arild Andersen's Clouds In My Head recording in 1974. Since then, has been involved in a number of projects exploring music from around the world from big bands to trios, an ever-deepening interest in percussion and the fusion of European baroque with classical Andalusian Arabic poetry and music.
In addition, he has recorded three solo piano albums for the imprint each very different moving from the exclusive use of the acoustic properties of the piano on Book of Velocities to the introduction of electronics on two further albums. It was therefore my great pleasure to be able to talk to Jon about his music and the different projects that he has been involved with, and his continuing search in the unknown.
How did you become interested in music and first start playing?
I grew up in a musical family, so I have always played something. First accordion, then piano, then cello, piano again and the drums. My father was a musician, even though he worked as a teacher to raise his family. I had classical training until the age of 13, then dropped out of all that and played blues for many years. And then dived into jazz as an autodidact.
Who have been particular influences on you both as a player and also a composer?
As a player, definitely Paul Bley, but also everything Miles released. And I think I wanted to reproduce his sound on the piano. Impossible of course , but still a factor in shaping the attack on the instrument. Of composers I was sitting a a small child listening to Prokofiev with full focus, but of course in adult life: Messiaen, Stockhausen, Feldman, Nono, Sciarrino.... as well as Bach, forever an influence.
Perhaps we can talk about your most recent album, Discourses. Can you tell us about your concept for the album and the preparation of the music and recording?
Discourses was conceived, rehearsed and recorded pre-corona in the hardening climate of political rhetoric. I became fascinated by how official language use deteriorated so fast. And this led me to think of my solo playing as a kind of speech, consisting of arguments, statements and questions. I wanted to contrast this with working on the space the musical language reverberates in , and used electronics and field recordings to represent that. And then we chose the cover image in january from a video I made of still images. It has a strange sense of Corona and social distancing, many people have commented.
The music on Discourses is very different from your previous 'solo' piano album Warp which also features the use of sound processing. How do you feel the approach to the playing solo and the use of electronics has evolved between recordings?
Warp was a first time experiment in contrasting the solo piano with electronics, and I felt that I had opened up a space that I could investigate further. I also became interested in pseudo acoustics: what we think we hear in the silence. So Discourses to me is more subtle, both in the actual piano playing, but also in removing the electronics, but because they are sometimes present, they sort of exist also in the silence.
Your first solo piano album for ECM was Book Of Velocities and again is very different from the two piano albums that were to follow. There are no electronics on the recording but there is use of prepared piano, or working inside the body of the instrument. After the more orchestrated albums with the various ensembles you had been working with, what prompted the beginning of what is now a solo piano trilogy?
The solo format is one that I dreaded and avoided for too long, because I was not sure I could handle it, especially in a concert situation. However, the challenge beckoned me, and I felt I had to dive into it. And my experience told me that it is by exposing oneself in this nakedness that one has a chance to really develop. Playing solo is in a way like walking into an endless space, everything is possible. What to choose? So you have make some framework to be able to do anything at all. And these albums are about testing out those frameworks.
Looking at your work on acoustic piano you recorded an album, Rotor, featuring your piano playing with the Cikada String Quartet. The album put the piano firmly in the spotlight with the string ensemble adding colour and texture to your playing. Did this recording away from your usual ensemble setting focus this aspect of your work, perhaps indicating the possibility of solo recording as a new avenue of exploration?
Rotor was a similar step into the unknown. The challenge of creating music for classically trained players with the purpose of achieving the flexibility of jazz and improvising players is a serious one, and Cikada and I went into this process not knowing how we would manage. I felt at the time that it was a kind of half successful result, but listening to it today I feel there is a sense of space there that I really like. One german critic wrote: "it creates a unique space" and I agree.
Discourses was conceived, rehearsed and recorded pre-corona in the hardening climate of political rhetoric. I became fascinated by how official language use deteriorated so fast. And this led me to think of my solo playing as a kind of speech, consisting of arguments, statements and questions. I wanted to contrast this with working on the space the musical language reverberates in , and used electronics and field recordings to represent that. And then we chose the cover image in january from a video I made of still images. It has a strange sense of Corona and social distancing, many people have commented.
The music on Discourses is very different from your previous 'solo' piano album Warp which also features the use of sound processing. How do you feel the approach to the playing solo and the use of electronics has evolved between recordings?
Warp was a first time experiment in contrasting the solo piano with electronics, and I felt that I had opened up a space that I could investigate further. I also became interested in pseudo acoustics: what we think we hear in the silence. So Discourses to me is more subtle, both in the actual piano playing, but also in removing the electronics, but because they are sometimes present, they sort of exist also in the silence.
Your first solo piano album for ECM was Book Of Velocities and again is very different from the two piano albums that were to follow. There are no electronics on the recording but there is use of prepared piano, or working inside the body of the instrument. After the more orchestrated albums with the various ensembles you had been working with, what prompted the beginning of what is now a solo piano trilogy?
The solo format is one that I dreaded and avoided for too long, because I was not sure I could handle it, especially in a concert situation. However, the challenge beckoned me, and I felt I had to dive into it. And my experience told me that it is by exposing oneself in this nakedness that one has a chance to really develop. Playing solo is in a way like walking into an endless space, everything is possible. What to choose? So you have make some framework to be able to do anything at all. And these albums are about testing out those frameworks.
Looking at your work on acoustic piano you recorded an album, Rotor, featuring your piano playing with the Cikada String Quartet. The album put the piano firmly in the spotlight with the string ensemble adding colour and texture to your playing. Did this recording away from your usual ensemble setting focus this aspect of your work, perhaps indicating the possibility of solo recording as a new avenue of exploration?
Rotor was a similar step into the unknown. The challenge of creating music for classically trained players with the purpose of achieving the flexibility of jazz and improvising players is a serious one, and Cikada and I went into this process not knowing how we would manage. I felt at the time that it was a kind of half successful result, but listening to it today I feel there is a sense of space there that I really like. One german critic wrote: "it creates a unique space" and I agree.
Looking back at some of your work with larger ensembles, I'd like to work chronologically to the present day looking how the bands and the music evolved over time.
Released in 1992, the Nonsentration album by Oslo 13 presented a set of original compositions for a medium size ensemble of striking originality. Can you tell us about the aims of the band and the album?
Oslo 13 was a collective composers orchestra of a generation of young adults. I had actually left the group in 1984 to define more of my own music, but got this commission to compose music for winds, brass and percussion that we played with a local lineup in a garage in Bodø in the north of Norway. Oslo 13 was then not in activity, so I constructed my own version of the group for this recording in Oslo, inviting Miki N´Doye, Finn Sletten, Audun Kleive and Jon Christensen for the percussion parts. Recording in Rainbow studio, it was inevitable to include the beautiful piano, so the music changed from the original version.It was a very easy album to record. Mostly first takes, with great playing from everybody.
Oslo 13 also brought together some players that would remain as a constant presence in future groups, Tore Brunborg, Per Jørgensen and Morten Halle for example. Was it always your intention to retain these musicians in future line ups, and were you writing with these specific musicians in mind?
The choice of musicians is not only musical. I need to work with people with a strong personal approach, but also someone who is cooperative, friendly and able to listen to the others. What matters to me is a sensitivity towards the total sound of the music at all times, not how much personal exposure you get or how much feedback you get. And then, as we continued to cooperate in further projects, the sound of these musicians are in my head when I write the music.
Released in 1992, the Nonsentration album by Oslo 13 presented a set of original compositions for a medium size ensemble of striking originality. Can you tell us about the aims of the band and the album?
Oslo 13 was a collective composers orchestra of a generation of young adults. I had actually left the group in 1984 to define more of my own music, but got this commission to compose music for winds, brass and percussion that we played with a local lineup in a garage in Bodø in the north of Norway. Oslo 13 was then not in activity, so I constructed my own version of the group for this recording in Oslo, inviting Miki N´Doye, Finn Sletten, Audun Kleive and Jon Christensen for the percussion parts. Recording in Rainbow studio, it was inevitable to include the beautiful piano, so the music changed from the original version.It was a very easy album to record. Mostly first takes, with great playing from everybody.
Oslo 13 also brought together some players that would remain as a constant presence in future groups, Tore Brunborg, Per Jørgensen and Morten Halle for example. Was it always your intention to retain these musicians in future line ups, and were you writing with these specific musicians in mind?
The choice of musicians is not only musical. I need to work with people with a strong personal approach, but also someone who is cooperative, friendly and able to listen to the others. What matters to me is a sensitivity towards the total sound of the music at all times, not how much personal exposure you get or how much feedback you get. And then, as we continued to cooperate in further projects, the sound of these musicians are in my head when I write the music.
After Nonsentration, your next release for ECM was Further and introduced the Magnetic North Orchestra. Can you tell us about the band, and their debut album?
Magnetic North orchestra was also born as a commissioned piece for the Voss Jazz festival in Norway. From the power- instrumentation of Oslo 13 and Nonsentration, I wanted to include a string quartet and bring the sax/brass players down to a much softer level of articulation. This was a process that took years , but Further was recorded two years after the premiere so we were well into the process by then. The original inspiration for MNO was actually Um Kal Thoum, the Egyptian diva, and the string arrangements by Abdelwahab. I loved these recordings, but felt that I could not approach arabic music with my background. So I tried to mold something with the elements I had. The track "Taraf" is a pointer towards that inspiration, but that is the closest I went, as I felt it more interesting to keep a distance from my inspiration , and let it evolve as something else.
Whilst Further moves on from the previous ECM recording, there are definite traits that can be found in both. The writing and arrangements taking the best from Nonsentration and working this into a new ensemble concept. Was this a conscious decision or a more gradual and organic process?
I think the affinity for the melody as a sculptural element has been with me all the time. Melodies pop up in my inner ear all the time, and the magic of a good , elegant line is something that will always fascinate me.
The follow up to Further was some six years later with Solarized which continued with the use of strings with the Cikada String Quartet added to the ensemble. How do you feel the music had evolved between the two recordings?
We had been playing a lot live then, and the addition of Arve Henriksen added further to the blending with the strings. Also , due to economy, we played without Marilyn Mazur, which also gave air to a more delicate sound. The magic of touring has a very strong effect on a group, that is where the polishing of the gem takes place, playing concerts in a row on tour.
Timewise, the albums Rotor and Solarized were both recorded around the same time. Whilst both are very different, the constant is the presence of the Cikada String Quartet. The use of the ensemble was obviously very important to you at this point, and I'm interested in why you were looking to incorporate their sound into the Orchestra and your compositions?
I had in Cikada, players that were at home both in contemporary classical and rhythmic music, and were also interested in improvisational practices. They were also very enthusiastic about both projects, so I could work more verbally with them, not being forced to create pinpoint notation in the scores. There was a lot of interaction between the contemporary scene and jazz in Norway at the time, with Cikada´s conductor Christian Eggen diving into wild experiments with us.
Solarized was released on the Emarcy imprint as opposed to ECM. Was the album originally for ECM as it was recorded at Rainbow Studios with Jan Erik Kongshaug as engineer?
Solarized was recorded without any guarantee from ECM, due to a heavy list of coming releases from the company, so instead of waiting for three years for a ECM release, I made the deal with Emarcy and Wulf Muller. Many of the tracks from Solarized were released on ECM later, however, on the Magnetic Works compilation.It was mixed by Audun Kleive , by the way.
Magnetic North orchestra was also born as a commissioned piece for the Voss Jazz festival in Norway. From the power- instrumentation of Oslo 13 and Nonsentration, I wanted to include a string quartet and bring the sax/brass players down to a much softer level of articulation. This was a process that took years , but Further was recorded two years after the premiere so we were well into the process by then. The original inspiration for MNO was actually Um Kal Thoum, the Egyptian diva, and the string arrangements by Abdelwahab. I loved these recordings, but felt that I could not approach arabic music with my background. So I tried to mold something with the elements I had. The track "Taraf" is a pointer towards that inspiration, but that is the closest I went, as I felt it more interesting to keep a distance from my inspiration , and let it evolve as something else.
Whilst Further moves on from the previous ECM recording, there are definite traits that can be found in both. The writing and arrangements taking the best from Nonsentration and working this into a new ensemble concept. Was this a conscious decision or a more gradual and organic process?
I think the affinity for the melody as a sculptural element has been with me all the time. Melodies pop up in my inner ear all the time, and the magic of a good , elegant line is something that will always fascinate me.
The follow up to Further was some six years later with Solarized which continued with the use of strings with the Cikada String Quartet added to the ensemble. How do you feel the music had evolved between the two recordings?
We had been playing a lot live then, and the addition of Arve Henriksen added further to the blending with the strings. Also , due to economy, we played without Marilyn Mazur, which also gave air to a more delicate sound. The magic of touring has a very strong effect on a group, that is where the polishing of the gem takes place, playing concerts in a row on tour.
Timewise, the albums Rotor and Solarized were both recorded around the same time. Whilst both are very different, the constant is the presence of the Cikada String Quartet. The use of the ensemble was obviously very important to you at this point, and I'm interested in why you were looking to incorporate their sound into the Orchestra and your compositions?
I had in Cikada, players that were at home both in contemporary classical and rhythmic music, and were also interested in improvisational practices. They were also very enthusiastic about both projects, so I could work more verbally with them, not being forced to create pinpoint notation in the scores. There was a lot of interaction between the contemporary scene and jazz in Norway at the time, with Cikada´s conductor Christian Eggen diving into wild experiments with us.
Solarized was released on the Emarcy imprint as opposed to ECM. Was the album originally for ECM as it was recorded at Rainbow Studios with Jan Erik Kongshaug as engineer?
Solarized was recorded without any guarantee from ECM, due to a heavy list of coming releases from the company, so instead of waiting for three years for a ECM release, I made the deal with Emarcy and Wulf Muller. Many of the tracks from Solarized were released on ECM later, however, on the Magnetic Works compilation.It was mixed by Audun Kleive , by the way.
Back at ECM for Kyanos released in 2002 which brings to a close a trilogy of albums for the Magnetic North Orchestra in which the mood and feel of the music is beginning to change and move in a different direction. Was this a conscious decision on your behalf, or a more organic process as the music and ensemble evolved over time?
Kyanos was actually made in a kind of elegy mode, without planning to do so. My mother was dying slowly of cancer at the same time as I was deep in the process of raising small children, with all the lack of sleep and time that involves. I did not intend to make a personal emotional narrative, but I guess this shines through anyhow.
With the final recording from the ensemble in the 2004 album, Diverted Travels any notion of change was confirmed with an album that was completely different from the earlier recordings. With the exception of Per Jørgensen the band featured entirely new personnel, and with the introduction of percussionists Helge Andreas Norbakken and Ingar Zach we hear the music moving away from the jazz tradition and contemporary composition that had been a staple of the band up until this point, and bringing to the fore the diverse non-Western forms, especially North and West African music. What influenced you to make this change in the band and your writing for it?
Just before this time the economy for touring with MNO collapsed completely. I had struggled for a long time to keep the group going and find concerts in Europe that would give us this effect of developing the music on tour, but everything stopped, and I could no more guarantee an income for my friends in the group. So I felt the need to start fresh with a different concept, wipe the table clean so to speak. I had been doing some cooperations in Copenhagen with Bjarte Eike and his fellow baroque musicians and the energy of their baroque playing combined with taking out the traditional drum set and introducing more precise distinct percussion sounds, felt like an opening to a new sound and a new way of writing music in polyphonic layers, rather than tunes.
Kyanos was actually made in a kind of elegy mode, without planning to do so. My mother was dying slowly of cancer at the same time as I was deep in the process of raising small children, with all the lack of sleep and time that involves. I did not intend to make a personal emotional narrative, but I guess this shines through anyhow.
With the final recording from the ensemble in the 2004 album, Diverted Travels any notion of change was confirmed with an album that was completely different from the earlier recordings. With the exception of Per Jørgensen the band featured entirely new personnel, and with the introduction of percussionists Helge Andreas Norbakken and Ingar Zach we hear the music moving away from the jazz tradition and contemporary composition that had been a staple of the band up until this point, and bringing to the fore the diverse non-Western forms, especially North and West African music. What influenced you to make this change in the band and your writing for it?
Just before this time the economy for touring with MNO collapsed completely. I had struggled for a long time to keep the group going and find concerts in Europe that would give us this effect of developing the music on tour, but everything stopped, and I could no more guarantee an income for my friends in the group. So I felt the need to start fresh with a different concept, wipe the table clean so to speak. I had been doing some cooperations in Copenhagen with Bjarte Eike and his fellow baroque musicians and the energy of their baroque playing combined with taking out the traditional drum set and introducing more precise distinct percussion sounds, felt like an opening to a new sound and a new way of writing music in polyphonic layers, rather than tunes.
If Diverted Travels hinted at radical changes in the music, the introduction of the Batagraf ensemble, and the album Statements was a bold and ambitious project. Can you tell us about the formation of the group and the musical areas that you wished to explore?
Both these albums were developed around the same time. I had finally gotten together a percussion group for research into elastic rhythmic playing with Helge Norbakken, which gave me another departure point for composing: let the rhythms define the rest of the music. For the recording I consciously added only the little melodic material that I felt was needed and let the sound of the drums dominate. The studio process was also very open , with Frode Nymo , Miki N´Doye and the vocalists Sidsel Endresen and Solveig Slettahjell visiting in the studio and only getting some verbal instructions and a few text lines. The result was surprising, even to me.
Both these albums were developed around the same time. I had finally gotten together a percussion group for research into elastic rhythmic playing with Helge Norbakken, which gave me another departure point for composing: let the rhythms define the rest of the music. For the recording I consciously added only the little melodic material that I felt was needed and let the sound of the drums dominate. The studio process was also very open , with Frode Nymo , Miki N´Doye and the vocalists Sidsel Endresen and Solveig Slettahjell visiting in the studio and only getting some verbal instructions and a few text lines. The result was surprising, even to me.
The album Say And Play was again quite a departure with a much-changed line-up. The strings and horns have gone, and the emphasis very much on the percussion. Your own role within the ensemble as a percussionist was becoming more prominent, and the relationship with Helge Andreas Norbakken deepening, and the non-Western aspects of the music even more to the foreground. Was this transformative process within the music driven by the need to change the scope of the group's sound world, or a more organic and gradual process as the spoken word and language became a more integral part of your compositions?
On Say And Play there is a very different approach again. We, Helge and me, wanted to build the music gradually, by overdubbing the percussion rather than recording with a full ensemble in one take.We worked with Olav Torget, who is a great engineer in recording acoustic percussion. In the beginning it was just packages of percussion, like on the track GMBH, but slowly I wanted to introduce the sound of spoken words and invited the poet Torgeir R. Pedersen and vocalist Emilie Christensen for the color of voice and language. The rhythm-language connection had been with us all the time (we also did concerts with sound poets Jaap Blonk and Sidsel Endresen) and I wanted to see if we could make kind of percussive poetry. The fact that he reads in norwegian is a conscious choice so that most listeners will hear the text as music, not literary meaning. But be able to look up the translations in the booklet, if needed.
On Say And Play there is a very different approach again. We, Helge and me, wanted to build the music gradually, by overdubbing the percussion rather than recording with a full ensemble in one take.We worked with Olav Torget, who is a great engineer in recording acoustic percussion. In the beginning it was just packages of percussion, like on the track GMBH, but slowly I wanted to introduce the sound of spoken words and invited the poet Torgeir R. Pedersen and vocalist Emilie Christensen for the color of voice and language. The rhythm-language connection had been with us all the time (we also did concerts with sound poets Jaap Blonk and Sidsel Endresen) and I wanted to see if we could make kind of percussive poetry. The fact that he reads in norwegian is a conscious choice so that most listeners will hear the text as music, not literary meaning. But be able to look up the translations in the booklet, if needed.
The concept of Batagraf allowed for a very broad and all-encompassing musical brief. This was confirmed with the extraordinary album On Anodyne featuring Batagraf with the Trondheim Voices. Can you tell us about the album and how the collaboration came about?
I was asked by Trondheim Voices to write a piece, anything, a complete open invitation. But , being deep in the language/drums research I wanted to make something pointing to the origins of music, with voices and drums. No electronics or melodic instruments. I started to search for a text and stumbled upon Anodyne on a poetry website, a poem which was so rich in images and so flowing in the phrasing that I knew I could make something with that. Yusuf Komunyakaa, the afro american poet, gave me the permission, and I started to rip the poem apart as well as to try to find a melodic reading of the whole poem.
The album once again presents us with a new sound, the use of piano and keyboards has gone with the only instruments' being percussion and voice. Also, the compositions are much longer than the pieces previously performed by Batagraf. Was this a conscious decision by yourself to work with longer pieces allowing the relationship with voices and percussion to evolve over the course of each composition?
Yes, I wanted this to be a full concert based on one poem, using the text as a bank of sounds. We performed this first time on the 23 July 2012, the day after Norway was struck by the worst terror attack ever, and the text got a dark reference that has stayed with it since. Last year I got a new poem sent from Yusuf and created the piece "A world of Daughters", which is a salute to the women and mothers in human history. We have now made this into a suite along with Anodyne and I scored it for string orchestra and voices.
The last album from Batagraf , Delights Of Decay, once again saw a dramatic change in the music. It could be said that the Western elements were returning to the music, with the re-introduction of saxophone and trumpet. There is a very compact and contained nature about the music, can you tell us about the album and the new direction that the music was taking?
We started this new recording without any ambition, just playing with electronic rhythms and inventing short unison rhythmic phrases as comments to these. I had set up a home studio then so we could work without pressure. We got quite far with just electronics and drums, but I felt the need for some stronger melodic material so I started to add some chords and lines. We then took this to Propeller studios in Oslo, and recorded with voices and horns, and gave everything to Kåre Vesterheim and let him take it all the way to master. The title refers to the advantages of being mature, or past , allowing ourselves to follow any idea in a free non-dogmatic way, without paying attention to expectations.
I was asked by Trondheim Voices to write a piece, anything, a complete open invitation. But , being deep in the language/drums research I wanted to make something pointing to the origins of music, with voices and drums. No electronics or melodic instruments. I started to search for a text and stumbled upon Anodyne on a poetry website, a poem which was so rich in images and so flowing in the phrasing that I knew I could make something with that. Yusuf Komunyakaa, the afro american poet, gave me the permission, and I started to rip the poem apart as well as to try to find a melodic reading of the whole poem.
The album once again presents us with a new sound, the use of piano and keyboards has gone with the only instruments' being percussion and voice. Also, the compositions are much longer than the pieces previously performed by Batagraf. Was this a conscious decision by yourself to work with longer pieces allowing the relationship with voices and percussion to evolve over the course of each composition?
Yes, I wanted this to be a full concert based on one poem, using the text as a bank of sounds. We performed this first time on the 23 July 2012, the day after Norway was struck by the worst terror attack ever, and the text got a dark reference that has stayed with it since. Last year I got a new poem sent from Yusuf and created the piece "A world of Daughters", which is a salute to the women and mothers in human history. We have now made this into a suite along with Anodyne and I scored it for string orchestra and voices.
The last album from Batagraf , Delights Of Decay, once again saw a dramatic change in the music. It could be said that the Western elements were returning to the music, with the re-introduction of saxophone and trumpet. There is a very compact and contained nature about the music, can you tell us about the album and the new direction that the music was taking?
We started this new recording without any ambition, just playing with electronic rhythms and inventing short unison rhythmic phrases as comments to these. I had set up a home studio then so we could work without pressure. We got quite far with just electronics and drums, but I felt the need for some stronger melodic material so I started to add some chords and lines. We then took this to Propeller studios in Oslo, and recorded with voices and horns, and gave everything to Kåre Vesterheim and let him take it all the way to master. The title refers to the advantages of being mature, or past , allowing ourselves to follow any idea in a free non-dogmatic way, without paying attention to expectations.
Many will be familiar with the trio Jøkleba from the ECM album Outland released on ECM in 2014, but the band has been in existence for some time prior to that. Can you tell us about the trio, and the musical aims of the group?
A:Jøkleba started as a woíld experiment in 1991, with the at that time daring dogma to play without bass, in order to release the harmonic freedom for me as a piano player . Without bass I could harmonize Per Jørgensens improvisations in any way I chose. And the rhythmic connection between me and Audun Kleive was so strong that we felt we did not need the support of a bass. Even though it felt very naked in the beginning...THe aim was to search for maximum freedom, while still working with melodies and chord structures. Very soon we started going on stage without any predefined plan, but having a huge sack of "tools" that we could pull up in the improvisation.
The group has quite a substantial discography on other labels, how do you feel the trio has evolved over the time between recordings?
Throughout the 90´s Jøkleba developed rapidly artistically , experimenting wildly with concert concepts (we played some concerts in 10 minutes sets) and gained a huge audience in Scandinavia. But we also bacame more and more demanding: any concert which did not stun us with surprised joy was a setback. This made us more and more nervous before going on stage and sort of painted us into a corner: There was no way we would repeat any success formula. So we took a break around 2004 and got together again in 2011 for some sparse concerts. But then searching into working with visuals, poetry, live drawing etc..We did not arrive at any satisfying ground to build further , so now the group is not active anymore.
All the abums are made in different situations: On and ON was recorded as a traditional album in two days in Rainbow studio, Jøkleba!/Nu jøk was recorded with a pop producer , using overdubs and layers of recordings. Live! is live from Gothenburg, and outland recorded mainly in my place in thecountryside, in a lot of different improvised sessions, then brought into Rainbow studio for editing.
The album Jokleba! Live! released in 1995 is a very powerful performance, and surprisingly features a couple of standards from the jazz repertoire, 'In A Sentimental Mood' and 'You Don't Know What Love Is'. What prompted the trio to include these tunes among the original compositions performed?
As I said we wanted to play free music, without limits, meaning that we did not limit ourselves to the standard concepts of improvised contemporary music, but looked for any kind of underlying structure that could ignite us. And these standards felt useful.
The most recent album from Jokleba, Outland, features freely created pieces for the trio that explore colour and textures while making reference to writings by Sylvia Plath, Laura Restrepo, Sadegh Hedayat, Guy de Maupassant and Ken Kesey. Can you tell us about the influence and inspiration behind the concept for the music?
Outland was concieved in the aftermaths of our reunion in 2011 and the ongoing search for a new ground. I was reading a lot about the human mind at the "edge of sanity"; what went on when people went over that edge. And felt this very similar to where we were searching: is there a music out there that we cannot conceive? How far do we have to go? All these books are really captivating in looking into the fragility of the human mind.
A:Jøkleba started as a woíld experiment in 1991, with the at that time daring dogma to play without bass, in order to release the harmonic freedom for me as a piano player . Without bass I could harmonize Per Jørgensens improvisations in any way I chose. And the rhythmic connection between me and Audun Kleive was so strong that we felt we did not need the support of a bass. Even though it felt very naked in the beginning...THe aim was to search for maximum freedom, while still working with melodies and chord structures. Very soon we started going on stage without any predefined plan, but having a huge sack of "tools" that we could pull up in the improvisation.
The group has quite a substantial discography on other labels, how do you feel the trio has evolved over the time between recordings?
Throughout the 90´s Jøkleba developed rapidly artistically , experimenting wildly with concert concepts (we played some concerts in 10 minutes sets) and gained a huge audience in Scandinavia. But we also bacame more and more demanding: any concert which did not stun us with surprised joy was a setback. This made us more and more nervous before going on stage and sort of painted us into a corner: There was no way we would repeat any success formula. So we took a break around 2004 and got together again in 2011 for some sparse concerts. But then searching into working with visuals, poetry, live drawing etc..We did not arrive at any satisfying ground to build further , so now the group is not active anymore.
All the abums are made in different situations: On and ON was recorded as a traditional album in two days in Rainbow studio, Jøkleba!/Nu jøk was recorded with a pop producer , using overdubs and layers of recordings. Live! is live from Gothenburg, and outland recorded mainly in my place in thecountryside, in a lot of different improvised sessions, then brought into Rainbow studio for editing.
The album Jokleba! Live! released in 1995 is a very powerful performance, and surprisingly features a couple of standards from the jazz repertoire, 'In A Sentimental Mood' and 'You Don't Know What Love Is'. What prompted the trio to include these tunes among the original compositions performed?
As I said we wanted to play free music, without limits, meaning that we did not limit ourselves to the standard concepts of improvised contemporary music, but looked for any kind of underlying structure that could ignite us. And these standards felt useful.
The most recent album from Jokleba, Outland, features freely created pieces for the trio that explore colour and textures while making reference to writings by Sylvia Plath, Laura Restrepo, Sadegh Hedayat, Guy de Maupassant and Ken Kesey. Can you tell us about the influence and inspiration behind the concept for the music?
Outland was concieved in the aftermaths of our reunion in 2011 and the ongoing search for a new ground. I was reading a lot about the human mind at the "edge of sanity"; what went on when people went over that edge. And felt this very similar to where we were searching: is there a music out there that we cannot conceive? How far do we have to go? All these books are really captivating in looking into the fragility of the human mind.
Alongside Batagraf, you were also working with and developing another ensemble, Siwan. A bold and ambitious project that incorporates baroque and music from Andalusian classical music. Can you tell us about Siwan and the concept you had for the music?
I could write a book about that! The idea came in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion and the disastrous results to world politics. I felt a strong need to raise my voice, and started to read a lot about tolerance and coexistence. This led to Al Andalous and the periods in that era where jews, muslims and catholics actually coexisted and created a powerful creative culture that was very advanced in european context. I was fascinated , also by the links to european baroque music through the spanish vise-kingdom of Napoli. So I had already the connection with Bjarte Eike and his baroque group, percussion with Helge, but needed a voice from arabic/gharnati music.
The debut album from the ensemble, Siwan, released in 2009 features the wonderful vocals of Amina Alaoui. How did you come to work with Amina?
I worked with Moroccan Miloud Guiderk, a club owner in Oslo, to find someone who was open enough to join an experiment like this. And the moment I heard Amina I knew she could be the one.The problem with this kind of world fusion is often that the players just play their tradition and if you are lucky it fits with the context, but with all the players in Siwan I was looking for an openness and interested in joining a new expression.
The text is often very powerful. How did you go about selecting the texts to set to music?
Amina is also a musicologist, and lives in Granada, the last stronghold of Al Andalous before the catholics erased the culture from Spain. She has a deep knowledge of the poetry from the era and supplied me with hundreds of poems in spanish translation. I wrote the music to some of them and she molded some of the melodies back to fit the arabic language.
How did you arrive at the instrumentation for the ensemble, as the music sounds very traditional yet also very contemporary at the same time?
I found the link between andalusian gharnati music (nouba) and baroque so interesting, that the image of baroque and Amina combined with improvising contemporary players felt very tempting. Of course this is a huge risk , as it was an unheard of mix. I did not know if it would work. I had earlier that year played a concert with Jon Hassell and got to know him well enough to dare to ask him to join me, which he happily did. And Manfred Eicher joined in with a lot of support and we did the first concert followed by recording in two sessions. It was very well received all over the world, to my great satisfaction.
Following Siwan, was a new album recorded in 2017, Nahnou Houm with a new vocalist Mona Boutchebak. How do you feel the music has changed between recordings?
The line up with Jon Hassell and Amina was a very star-heavy constellation, and considerable care (and money) was needed to maintain this structure. I slowly felt the need to create a band again, and when Amina left , we did some concerts with different singers, like Kamylia Jubran and Lamia Badoui. None of this really worked out, but when we found Mona , I knew that we could create this kind of collective that would fit the music. She has that kind of free spirit combined with a great ability to understand and assimilate new ideas.
The two albums were recorded some nine years apart. Was this a deliberate decision to wait before recording again with this group?
Siwan is such a big organism to move around and needs big festival budgets to happen. We have ended up playing just a few concerts (for large audiences) every year, and so the music has felt fresh every time we meet and play. It is a very happy bunch of people, almost like a family. But slowly we felt the need to create a repertoir that was Mona, so this new album came about. And we will now record again for the final step three in the trilogy. Siwan means balance, triangular and everything connected to three, so it is time. If the pandemic situation allows us to gather in Copenhagen, that is.
And plans for the future?
Recording Siwan 3 will be the main priority. I have also played a lot of solo concerts lately and enjoy that more and more. So if travel again is possible more of that, I hope. If this pandemic goes o for years more, I guess there will be more research and home studio work, maybe resulting in digital communication with the audience. We have already set up a series of video-casts with Batagraf called Batagram on YouTube, all made in lockdown.
I could write a book about that! The idea came in the aftermath of the Iraq invasion and the disastrous results to world politics. I felt a strong need to raise my voice, and started to read a lot about tolerance and coexistence. This led to Al Andalous and the periods in that era where jews, muslims and catholics actually coexisted and created a powerful creative culture that was very advanced in european context. I was fascinated , also by the links to european baroque music through the spanish vise-kingdom of Napoli. So I had already the connection with Bjarte Eike and his baroque group, percussion with Helge, but needed a voice from arabic/gharnati music.
The debut album from the ensemble, Siwan, released in 2009 features the wonderful vocals of Amina Alaoui. How did you come to work with Amina?
I worked with Moroccan Miloud Guiderk, a club owner in Oslo, to find someone who was open enough to join an experiment like this. And the moment I heard Amina I knew she could be the one.The problem with this kind of world fusion is often that the players just play their tradition and if you are lucky it fits with the context, but with all the players in Siwan I was looking for an openness and interested in joining a new expression.
The text is often very powerful. How did you go about selecting the texts to set to music?
Amina is also a musicologist, and lives in Granada, the last stronghold of Al Andalous before the catholics erased the culture from Spain. She has a deep knowledge of the poetry from the era and supplied me with hundreds of poems in spanish translation. I wrote the music to some of them and she molded some of the melodies back to fit the arabic language.
How did you arrive at the instrumentation for the ensemble, as the music sounds very traditional yet also very contemporary at the same time?
I found the link between andalusian gharnati music (nouba) and baroque so interesting, that the image of baroque and Amina combined with improvising contemporary players felt very tempting. Of course this is a huge risk , as it was an unheard of mix. I did not know if it would work. I had earlier that year played a concert with Jon Hassell and got to know him well enough to dare to ask him to join me, which he happily did. And Manfred Eicher joined in with a lot of support and we did the first concert followed by recording in two sessions. It was very well received all over the world, to my great satisfaction.
Following Siwan, was a new album recorded in 2017, Nahnou Houm with a new vocalist Mona Boutchebak. How do you feel the music has changed between recordings?
The line up with Jon Hassell and Amina was a very star-heavy constellation, and considerable care (and money) was needed to maintain this structure. I slowly felt the need to create a band again, and when Amina left , we did some concerts with different singers, like Kamylia Jubran and Lamia Badoui. None of this really worked out, but when we found Mona , I knew that we could create this kind of collective that would fit the music. She has that kind of free spirit combined with a great ability to understand and assimilate new ideas.
The two albums were recorded some nine years apart. Was this a deliberate decision to wait before recording again with this group?
Siwan is such a big organism to move around and needs big festival budgets to happen. We have ended up playing just a few concerts (for large audiences) every year, and so the music has felt fresh every time we meet and play. It is a very happy bunch of people, almost like a family. But slowly we felt the need to create a repertoir that was Mona, so this new album came about. And we will now record again for the final step three in the trilogy. Siwan means balance, triangular and everything connected to three, so it is time. If the pandemic situation allows us to gather in Copenhagen, that is.
And plans for the future?
Recording Siwan 3 will be the main priority. I have also played a lot of solo concerts lately and enjoy that more and more. So if travel again is possible more of that, I hope. If this pandemic goes o for years more, I guess there will be more research and home studio work, maybe resulting in digital communication with the audience. We have already set up a series of video-casts with Batagraf called Batagram on YouTube, all made in lockdown.
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Click on the album covers below to read some of our reviews
Click on the album covers below to read some of our reviews
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