FRED THOMAS - Bach & Beyond
Fred Thomas is an astonishing multi-instrumentalist, composer, arranger and producer whose resume is far ranging. Refusing to be labelled or constrained by genre his career has encompassed working with Brian Eno, Jarvis Cocker, Ethan Iverson, Kit Downes and Leo Abrahams, among others. He has recorded a considerable number of albums under his own name across a wide range of genres, particularly classical and jazz.
Thomas' first appearance on ECM was on Lost Ships by Elina Duni and Rob Luft (2020) on which he played both piano and drums, although it appears that his debut recording for the label for ECM New Series has been a project that has been patiently sitting in the wings. Released in October 2021, Three Or One finds the pianist exploring the music of J.S.Bach, with whose music has a particular affinity, and for which Thomas has transcribed twenty four pieces for trio and solo piano, featuring cellist Lucy Railton and violinist Aisha Orazbayeva.
The album has been a long time in the making with the recordings made between 2012 and 2018? Can you tell us about the recording of the album, and the timeframe?
The trio pieces were recorded soon after Aisha, Lucy and I left music college. Alex Bonney, a long-term mixing and instrumental collaborator, suggested that I approach Huddersfield University. Pierre-Alexandre Tremblay was incredibly generous and offered us an amazing space and gear of the highest quality to record. They were 5 very beautiful an intense days in the Yorkshire autumn. In 2018 I returned to Huddersfield to record the solo piano pieces.
It’s both beautiful and strange to release something that was recorded so long ago. It was a different me (quite literally in chemical terms). Normally I might feel uncomfortable about this, but in the case of this record I still feel very connected to it….a fact by which I’m quite delighted. Often I don’t enjoy listening to a lot of my old records….or rather, it’s a mixture of emotions (tinged with cringe). Of course I just accept that as a natural part of creative growth….it would be worrying if we loved all of our former selves. But I’m quite proud that I still love this one.
There is a very special relationship between yourself, Lucy and Aisha that is clearly heard on the album. Your relationship with both musicians goes back a long way, so was this project and the music arranged specifically for the three of you to play together?
Yes. Around 2012 I was curating a concert series in London with the help of Lucy Railton, and one day I discovered these Bach chorale preludes, relatively unknown outside the organ world. They blew me away! Mostly Aisha, Lucy and I were playing original compositions or contemporary music, but I caught the idea of transcribing Bach preludes for these two crazy string players plus piano. Though we had come from playing stuff like original compositions, Morton Feldman and Salvatore Sciarrino, I had a gut feeling that their distinct sounds would work on this music so full of eccentric characters.
The pieces for Trio are primarily drawn from Bach’s Orgelbüchlein. Can you tell us how you approached transcribing the music for the trio, and how you were able to separate the voices in such a fresh and compelling manner?
The transcription process in a way was very simple. Look at the score; imagine the music; sing it/play it on the piano; imagine it on other instruments; conjure a soundworld and character; make decisions about how to organise it (register, timbre, articulation etc). I say simple, but of course the act of imagination is the hardest and most fun bit. Being familiar with string instruments definitely helps.
If you look at the score the voices are mostly already very separate - in the composing itself. On the organ they often blend so much because of resonant church acoustics. So when you explode the parts onto separate instruments they’re already a lot more distinct. This feeling was enhanced by simple arrangement techniques to do with register, pizzicato, vibrato, character - all common musical questions. Then in the mixing process we went even further by placing certain instruments further away than others. For example, in Wenn wir in höchsten Nöten sein' (BWV Anh. 2/ 78) the piano is very close to the listener and plays a bizarre chromatic bassline, whereas the 2 strings play a simple chorale, very far away, in unison (they phase in and out of each other like double-tracking as in pop recording). This was done by using both extremely close and far away microphones. So this sense of space is an important part of this record. I love it when recording techniques can embody the musical content itself…..Bach’s polyphony is three-dimensional after all.
Thomas' first appearance on ECM was on Lost Ships by Elina Duni and Rob Luft (2020) on which he played both piano and drums, although it appears that his debut recording for the label for ECM New Series has been a project that has been patiently sitting in the wings. Released in October 2021, Three Or One finds the pianist exploring the music of J.S.Bach, with whose music has a particular affinity, and for which Thomas has transcribed twenty four pieces for trio and solo piano, featuring cellist Lucy Railton and violinist Aisha Orazbayeva.
The album has been a long time in the making with the recordings made between 2012 and 2018? Can you tell us about the recording of the album, and the timeframe?
The trio pieces were recorded soon after Aisha, Lucy and I left music college. Alex Bonney, a long-term mixing and instrumental collaborator, suggested that I approach Huddersfield University. Pierre-Alexandre Tremblay was incredibly generous and offered us an amazing space and gear of the highest quality to record. They were 5 very beautiful an intense days in the Yorkshire autumn. In 2018 I returned to Huddersfield to record the solo piano pieces.
It’s both beautiful and strange to release something that was recorded so long ago. It was a different me (quite literally in chemical terms). Normally I might feel uncomfortable about this, but in the case of this record I still feel very connected to it….a fact by which I’m quite delighted. Often I don’t enjoy listening to a lot of my old records….or rather, it’s a mixture of emotions (tinged with cringe). Of course I just accept that as a natural part of creative growth….it would be worrying if we loved all of our former selves. But I’m quite proud that I still love this one.
There is a very special relationship between yourself, Lucy and Aisha that is clearly heard on the album. Your relationship with both musicians goes back a long way, so was this project and the music arranged specifically for the three of you to play together?
Yes. Around 2012 I was curating a concert series in London with the help of Lucy Railton, and one day I discovered these Bach chorale preludes, relatively unknown outside the organ world. They blew me away! Mostly Aisha, Lucy and I were playing original compositions or contemporary music, but I caught the idea of transcribing Bach preludes for these two crazy string players plus piano. Though we had come from playing stuff like original compositions, Morton Feldman and Salvatore Sciarrino, I had a gut feeling that their distinct sounds would work on this music so full of eccentric characters.
The pieces for Trio are primarily drawn from Bach’s Orgelbüchlein. Can you tell us how you approached transcribing the music for the trio, and how you were able to separate the voices in such a fresh and compelling manner?
The transcription process in a way was very simple. Look at the score; imagine the music; sing it/play it on the piano; imagine it on other instruments; conjure a soundworld and character; make decisions about how to organise it (register, timbre, articulation etc). I say simple, but of course the act of imagination is the hardest and most fun bit. Being familiar with string instruments definitely helps.
If you look at the score the voices are mostly already very separate - in the composing itself. On the organ they often blend so much because of resonant church acoustics. So when you explode the parts onto separate instruments they’re already a lot more distinct. This feeling was enhanced by simple arrangement techniques to do with register, pizzicato, vibrato, character - all common musical questions. Then in the mixing process we went even further by placing certain instruments further away than others. For example, in Wenn wir in höchsten Nöten sein' (BWV Anh. 2/ 78) the piano is very close to the listener and plays a bizarre chromatic bassline, whereas the 2 strings play a simple chorale, very far away, in unison (they phase in and out of each other like double-tracking as in pop recording). This was done by using both extremely close and far away microphones. So this sense of space is an important part of this record. I love it when recording techniques can embody the musical content itself…..Bach’s polyphony is three-dimensional after all.
The music has a freshness about it that invites the listener to hear a new Bach's incredible music, and this is something you have explored extensively throughout your career and is well documented in your recorded output. What is it that fascinates you about Bach, and the ways in which you find new contexts in which to present the music?
So much ink has been spilled on the fascination of Bach…It would take a lot of thought to add anything meaningful. What I can say is that Bach stimulates me more than any other music I know. What’s more, it works on every single level of my consciousness, and I find that astonishing. Normally if I want a special kick I’ll seek out a certain artist for something specific ….for example if I’m packing I like Beethoven, or sleeping I’ll put on Joao Gilberto, or I have a playlist of over-excited Baroque music to help wake me up. It’s a bit like Brian Eno’s ‘Music for Airports’. There is traditional music from all over the world that has specific functions. But with Bach it’s not like that….it encompasses everything. That’s why people always go on about it being universal, though I’m not sure I buy that. Where do we get our sureness that an extra-terrestrial would enjoy Bach? But still, his wide embrace is hard to fathom.
How did the association with ECM and Manfred Eicher come about? What was Manfred's input in the production of Three Or One?
Manfred Eicher selected the pieces from a larger pool of recordings I’d made and then assembled them into an order that was meaningful for him. This is no mean feat when there are so many short tracks and such a variety of moods, keys and rhythmic characters. It takes huge skill and experience to make the sequence flow like that. By reconfiguring Bach’s original chronology, he created a new story.
Your debut appearance for ECM was with Elina Duni and Rob Luft on the Lost Ships album wher your played both piano and drums. How did your relationship with Elina and Rob come about?
I met Rob Luft through my good friend, the drummer Phelan Burgoyne, who was in one of my bands. Then Rob introduced me to Elina Duni, and since then we’ve been playing gigs all over the world. We’re developing a very nice sound together, I think.
As a musician you write and perform in a wide variety of genres. How did you become interested in music, and can you tell us about your early musical experiences and influences?
My father is a violinist and my mother a music lover. They always took me to concerts, there were often rehearsals at home and every morning I woke up to the sound of my dad’s violin. We had a nice hi-fi system with the complete Los Beatles collection on LP (brought over from Argentina), so music was all around. There were always instruments and records to explore….no-one pushed me into it. At some point I had a CD player and from then on I always listened to music to fall asleep - Mozart Clarinet Concerto, Schubert Quintet (Casals/Tortelier/Stern), Chopin Nocturnes (Arthur Rubinstein) and Bach Partita No. 1 (Dinu Lipatti)….pretty predictable, but I listened to these on repeat, obsessively and they must have had a big impact. I was always drawn to gentleness in music. My best friend was a drummer and we spent a lot of time in his dad’s studio, so I had lots of different musical influences.
So much ink has been spilled on the fascination of Bach…It would take a lot of thought to add anything meaningful. What I can say is that Bach stimulates me more than any other music I know. What’s more, it works on every single level of my consciousness, and I find that astonishing. Normally if I want a special kick I’ll seek out a certain artist for something specific ….for example if I’m packing I like Beethoven, or sleeping I’ll put on Joao Gilberto, or I have a playlist of over-excited Baroque music to help wake me up. It’s a bit like Brian Eno’s ‘Music for Airports’. There is traditional music from all over the world that has specific functions. But with Bach it’s not like that….it encompasses everything. That’s why people always go on about it being universal, though I’m not sure I buy that. Where do we get our sureness that an extra-terrestrial would enjoy Bach? But still, his wide embrace is hard to fathom.
How did the association with ECM and Manfred Eicher come about? What was Manfred's input in the production of Three Or One?
Manfred Eicher selected the pieces from a larger pool of recordings I’d made and then assembled them into an order that was meaningful for him. This is no mean feat when there are so many short tracks and such a variety of moods, keys and rhythmic characters. It takes huge skill and experience to make the sequence flow like that. By reconfiguring Bach’s original chronology, he created a new story.
Your debut appearance for ECM was with Elina Duni and Rob Luft on the Lost Ships album wher your played both piano and drums. How did your relationship with Elina and Rob come about?
I met Rob Luft through my good friend, the drummer Phelan Burgoyne, who was in one of my bands. Then Rob introduced me to Elina Duni, and since then we’ve been playing gigs all over the world. We’re developing a very nice sound together, I think.
As a musician you write and perform in a wide variety of genres. How did you become interested in music, and can you tell us about your early musical experiences and influences?
My father is a violinist and my mother a music lover. They always took me to concerts, there were often rehearsals at home and every morning I woke up to the sound of my dad’s violin. We had a nice hi-fi system with the complete Los Beatles collection on LP (brought over from Argentina), so music was all around. There were always instruments and records to explore….no-one pushed me into it. At some point I had a CD player and from then on I always listened to music to fall asleep - Mozart Clarinet Concerto, Schubert Quintet (Casals/Tortelier/Stern), Chopin Nocturnes (Arthur Rubinstein) and Bach Partita No. 1 (Dinu Lipatti)….pretty predictable, but I listened to these on repeat, obsessively and they must have had a big impact. I was always drawn to gentleness in music. My best friend was a drummer and we spent a lot of time in his dad’s studio, so I had lots of different musical influences.
You are also widely known as a multi-instrumentalist. How many different instruments do you play, and how did the interest in playing multiple instruments come about?
Trite as it sounds, I’m more interested in music than instruments. Musicians who are obsessed by an instrument and one kind of repertoire are like a different species. I worship some of them, but in general I’m into more open musicians….those who think more abstractly about music. Instruments are like styles of music for me…each one is correct for a certain situation. So if I feel like counterpoint I’ll play the piano or organ; if I want to sing I’ll play the viella or viola da gamba; for certain types of jazz i prefer to play double bass or drums; if I want to accompany a Bossa Nova i’ll use guitar. Bossa Nova sounds rubbish to me on the piano so why would I use it? I choose which instrument I consider right for the moment. Recently the beautiful oud player Saied Silbak approached me to play some of his music…..he suggested I play piano, but piano is not a sound that I enjoy in that kind of music (for all sorts of reasons to do with style and tuning) so I proposed the double bass instead. Same thing when I play with the kora player Kadialy Kouyate. Of course I have limited instrumental options, but the music often dictates the instrument. On the other hand, I like creating projects which have a very specific identity, so that sometimes involves using just one instrument and forcing it to find imaginative ways to speak.
Do you consider yourself and pianist firstly and foremost?
Yes, it was the instrument that I started with. I have a complex relationship with the piano and I choose quite specifically what to play on it - I avoid certain things because the associations are too strong and the piano masters of the past are too present….it’s hard to escape them! But I still feel very identified with the instrument. The thing I enjoy most is trying to coax it into making a sound I like.
And finally, what plans do you have for future projects. Are there any plans to collaborate further with ECM and Manfred?
I’m always working on too many projects! At the moment a solo viella album (medieval string instrument that my dear friend Kees Boeke taught me), a solo piano standards album of improvised counterpoint called ‘Spinning Threads’, a Schumann Lieder duo album with jazz pianist Liam Noble (one of my heroes), an EP with one of my favourite singer-songwriters Barnaby Keen, a Phaedra Ensemble album comprising a composition of mine called ’Taking a Nap, I Pound the Rice’ plus ’StringSongs’ by Meredith Monk (with whom we worked closely), and a planned two-pianos album with Kit Downes.
Trite as it sounds, I’m more interested in music than instruments. Musicians who are obsessed by an instrument and one kind of repertoire are like a different species. I worship some of them, but in general I’m into more open musicians….those who think more abstractly about music. Instruments are like styles of music for me…each one is correct for a certain situation. So if I feel like counterpoint I’ll play the piano or organ; if I want to sing I’ll play the viella or viola da gamba; for certain types of jazz i prefer to play double bass or drums; if I want to accompany a Bossa Nova i’ll use guitar. Bossa Nova sounds rubbish to me on the piano so why would I use it? I choose which instrument I consider right for the moment. Recently the beautiful oud player Saied Silbak approached me to play some of his music…..he suggested I play piano, but piano is not a sound that I enjoy in that kind of music (for all sorts of reasons to do with style and tuning) so I proposed the double bass instead. Same thing when I play with the kora player Kadialy Kouyate. Of course I have limited instrumental options, but the music often dictates the instrument. On the other hand, I like creating projects which have a very specific identity, so that sometimes involves using just one instrument and forcing it to find imaginative ways to speak.
Do you consider yourself and pianist firstly and foremost?
Yes, it was the instrument that I started with. I have a complex relationship with the piano and I choose quite specifically what to play on it - I avoid certain things because the associations are too strong and the piano masters of the past are too present….it’s hard to escape them! But I still feel very identified with the instrument. The thing I enjoy most is trying to coax it into making a sound I like.
And finally, what plans do you have for future projects. Are there any plans to collaborate further with ECM and Manfred?
I’m always working on too many projects! At the moment a solo viella album (medieval string instrument that my dear friend Kees Boeke taught me), a solo piano standards album of improvised counterpoint called ‘Spinning Threads’, a Schumann Lieder duo album with jazz pianist Liam Noble (one of my heroes), an EP with one of my favourite singer-songwriters Barnaby Keen, a Phaedra Ensemble album comprising a composition of mine called ’Taking a Nap, I Pound the Rice’ plus ’StringSongs’ by Meredith Monk (with whom we worked closely), and a planned two-pianos album with Kit Downes.
Fred Thomas on ECM - click on the album covers to read our reviews
|
|
For more information visit ECM Records & fred-thomas.co.uk
