CALUM GOURLAY - Four To The Fore
Photographs courtesy Dave Hamblett
Bassist, Calum Gourlay has been making waves as one of the most in demand players in London. He is a regular member of the Kit Downs Trio and Tommy Smith Quartet with whom he has recorded and toured extensively.
As well as maintaining a busy schedule as sideman, Gourlay is also keen to push himself forward into the limelight and has a monthly residency at the Vortex for his big band, and now with the release of New Ears for his Quartet featuring fellow Scots saxophonist, Helena Kay and Keiran McLeod on trombone, and lone Englishman, James Maddren behind the kit, he is now bringing his own projects to the foreground of his activities.
Gourlay has an uncanny knack, like Dave Holland before him of having the ability to communicate in all manner of settings from solo bass to big band, and with this release, his debut as a leader, it should help to showcase the bassist as vital new composer and arranger. All the compositions are by Calum and show a fertile mind with an ear for a good melody, and the ability to arrange these into exciting charts for small or large ensemble.
It was therefore my great pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to Calum about the new album and his quartet, as well as his ongoing work with his big band.
As well as maintaining a busy schedule as sideman, Gourlay is also keen to push himself forward into the limelight and has a monthly residency at the Vortex for his big band, and now with the release of New Ears for his Quartet featuring fellow Scots saxophonist, Helena Kay and Keiran McLeod on trombone, and lone Englishman, James Maddren behind the kit, he is now bringing his own projects to the foreground of his activities.
Gourlay has an uncanny knack, like Dave Holland before him of having the ability to communicate in all manner of settings from solo bass to big band, and with this release, his debut as a leader, it should help to showcase the bassist as vital new composer and arranger. All the compositions are by Calum and show a fertile mind with an ear for a good melody, and the ability to arrange these into exciting charts for small or large ensemble.
It was therefore my great pleasure to have the opportunity to talk to Calum about the new album and his quartet, as well as his ongoing work with his big band.
Can you tell us about your new album? Maybe we should start with the title?
This is my first album as a leader. It’s called ‘New Ears’ as I started pulling the music together over late December/early January last year. It features Helena Kay on Tenor Sax, Kieran McLeod on Trombone and James Maddren on drums.
Also the line up is a little unusual? Why a quartet and these particular musicians?
I’ve always wanted to have a killer small band. Helena, Kieran and James are musicians I’ve known and loved for a long time and they’ve been important members of my big band for the last few years.
When I first listened to the album, I immediately thought of Dave Holland's quintet of the late nineties/early 2000 with Chris Potter and Robin Eubanks (I'm thinking specifically of the 'Prime Directive' album). Both have a strong contemporary feel, looking for something new, and I felt that your quartet shared the same sense of strong material and tightly controlled excitement that can, if required, go almost anywhere the music demands. Was Holland's quintet an influence, and where else did the idea for this instrumentation come from?
When I was at The Royal Academy ‘Prime Directive’ was one of the albums everyone was listening to. That and the first ‘Fly’ album were a huge influence on me at the academy particularly for the “chordless” thing.
I picked the musicians in my quartet because of who they are rather than what instruments they happen to play. When I thought about who I wanted to play with I suppose I did look at it on paper and think “trombone and tenor is a little weird” but actually they are similar in lots of ways. Both sound very powerful playing at their extreme ends of range for example, so that was a good place to start writing for them.
So was it always a conscious decision to form a band without a harmony instrument?
I think so. I love playing without harmony instruments as it gives the bass player so much freedom. But interestingly I think it means you can be more adventurous with harmony. With three parts there are a lot of directions you can go in. I tried to write without chord symbols in mind as I read an interview with Rick Simpson (a great piano player and composer) where he talked about doing that. But, I ended up trying to assign chords to them later on for improvising and turning them into big band charts. That was pretty tough and I’m not sure I got them right!
This is my first album as a leader. It’s called ‘New Ears’ as I started pulling the music together over late December/early January last year. It features Helena Kay on Tenor Sax, Kieran McLeod on Trombone and James Maddren on drums.
Also the line up is a little unusual? Why a quartet and these particular musicians?
I’ve always wanted to have a killer small band. Helena, Kieran and James are musicians I’ve known and loved for a long time and they’ve been important members of my big band for the last few years.
When I first listened to the album, I immediately thought of Dave Holland's quintet of the late nineties/early 2000 with Chris Potter and Robin Eubanks (I'm thinking specifically of the 'Prime Directive' album). Both have a strong contemporary feel, looking for something new, and I felt that your quartet shared the same sense of strong material and tightly controlled excitement that can, if required, go almost anywhere the music demands. Was Holland's quintet an influence, and where else did the idea for this instrumentation come from?
When I was at The Royal Academy ‘Prime Directive’ was one of the albums everyone was listening to. That and the first ‘Fly’ album were a huge influence on me at the academy particularly for the “chordless” thing.
I picked the musicians in my quartet because of who they are rather than what instruments they happen to play. When I thought about who I wanted to play with I suppose I did look at it on paper and think “trombone and tenor is a little weird” but actually they are similar in lots of ways. Both sound very powerful playing at their extreme ends of range for example, so that was a good place to start writing for them.
So was it always a conscious decision to form a band without a harmony instrument?
I think so. I love playing without harmony instruments as it gives the bass player so much freedom. But interestingly I think it means you can be more adventurous with harmony. With three parts there are a lot of directions you can go in. I tried to write without chord symbols in mind as I read an interview with Rick Simpson (a great piano player and composer) where he talked about doing that. But, I ended up trying to assign chords to them later on for improvising and turning them into big band charts. That was pretty tough and I’m not sure I got them right!
How did you go about composing for the quartet. I'm guessing the material was written for these specific musicians?
All the pieces were written for quartet but with the ultimate goal of arranging them for big band in mind. I regularly have a play or rehearsal with a quartet or quintet with this plan as I find it very difficult to start a big band piece from scratch. I think we played with this quartet sometime in early 2018 and I really liked the tenor and trombone together. I use this doubling in my big band charts quite a lot now as I know how powerful it is.
The quartet pieces been through the big band and now they’re out the other side with a few little changes here and there. ‘Blue Fugates’ has a shout chorus that came from the big band arrangement for example.
Some of the tunes seem to be written with a certain role in mind. For example, 'Be Minor' is a terrific opening number, and 'Blue Fugates' is another track that follows it's own path. Is this a conscious decision when writing for the quartet?
Be Minor’ is essentially just a few bars of music but yes I wanted to write something that would make a good opener. It’s something a visiting composition teacher set us at the academy years ago. “What would be the first thing you would want to hear at a gig?”
‘Blue Fugates’ was my attempt to write a 12 bar blues that turned out a little weird. I like the idea of improvising on something that has an almost familiar feeling to it but is still a little challenging.
'Ro' comes across as a real big number, with the feeling that it may be an arrangement scaled down from a big band chart for a quartet. Is there a story behind this composition?
It was a quartet tune first by a long way! It turned into one of the easiest things to arrange for big band, I’m not sure why. I just played the big band arrangement with the Guildhall Big Band a few nights ago and they absolutely nailed it.
There's a great video of the brilliant guitarist and composer, Mary Halvorson talking about free jazz and composing on YouTube. I found it so inspiring I had to shut my laptop then immediately started trying to write something that later became ‘Ro’. Its named after one of my favourite characters from Star Trek.
You also have a monthly residency at The Vortex with your big band. Do you find a big difference in writing for such contrasting line ups as the big band and four piece ensemble?
Yes the big band is much louder! I’ve always struggled to write a large ensemble piece without having at least something that I know works on a smaller scale. I think if you do it that way round (small band to big band) it ends up having a sort of inner logic to it. And if it works really well in a small group then its simpler to arrange for big band. I’m pretty sure my favourite big band arrangers took this same approach. I like the process of chipping away at something and refining it over time.
New Ears is your debut album as leader of a band, but you have previously recorded a solo album, Live At The Ridgeway. Can you tell us about this album, and is it still available?
Yes it’s on Bandcamp along with all of ‘Two Rivers Records’ back catalogue. I also have a few hard copies I sell on gigs.
I really wanted to do a project that challenged me and got my foot in the door so to speak. Alya from Two Rivers came along and asked me if I wanted to record something around the same time. I did it in my living room in front of a live audience.
I was really into Eberhard Weber and Dave Holland’s solo albums. My album has no overdubs or electronics though, its just me and a bass. I really love when piano players play solo. I’m envious of the ability to play a complete piece of music on your own so I tried to emulate that by playing more on forms and songs than playing totally free.
From writing and performing with a big band, to your new quartet and solo double bass covers an awful lot of ground. How do you perceive the role of the bass in such a freewheeling music as jazz, and your approach to playing?
To me the bass is an instrument that makes others sound better. The role of the bass is to work with others to make the music sound good. The drums and bass relationship in jazz is one of the most exciting things in music.
The best thing about music is playing it with other people and some instruments are versatile enough to work in lots of different line ups and lots of different genres of music. The bass is definitely one of them.
How did you become interested in playing music and especially bass? I believe you started out on cello first?
My dad is a music teacher. My brother and sister are very creative and both did music to some level. I always wanted to be a musician but when I heard jazz and started learning what improvising was I was hooked.
I played cello for a long time but I love the double bass a lot more. Maybe if there were more (there are some great ones) improvising cellists in jazz I would have played it but I did my grade 8 cello exam and then put it back in it’s case. I can count the number of times I’ve played it since on one hand.
Because of the cello I heard a lot of classical music before I heard jazz properly. I really love the double bass and the only reason I didn’t start out on it is because my school didn’t have any. Maybe I saw one on TV or a film or something but I always wanted to play it.
Who would you say have been a particular influence on your playing and development as a musician?
Tough question. I suppose Thelonious Monk has been the biggest in the last five years. He has such a beautiful connection between his composing and his improvising. That’s something id like to explore with my own music a lot more. I think Charlie Haden played like this but didn’t write that many tunes. Maybe Dave Holland too.
I was part of a band called ‘Thelonious’ with Martin Speake and Hans Koller in which we tried to learn all of his compositions. It was like going to school again, I loved it. Weirdly I just realised a few days ago that it was the same lineup as this quartet; sax, trombone bass and drums.
And finally, plans for the future?
I want to record a live big band album next year (2020) and another small band record for the year after possibly with a quintet but I haven’t decided yet. I really wish I’d starting recording my music a lot earlier but now I have a tonne of music that I want to play and lots of ideas that excite me about the future.
All the pieces were written for quartet but with the ultimate goal of arranging them for big band in mind. I regularly have a play or rehearsal with a quartet or quintet with this plan as I find it very difficult to start a big band piece from scratch. I think we played with this quartet sometime in early 2018 and I really liked the tenor and trombone together. I use this doubling in my big band charts quite a lot now as I know how powerful it is.
The quartet pieces been through the big band and now they’re out the other side with a few little changes here and there. ‘Blue Fugates’ has a shout chorus that came from the big band arrangement for example.
Some of the tunes seem to be written with a certain role in mind. For example, 'Be Minor' is a terrific opening number, and 'Blue Fugates' is another track that follows it's own path. Is this a conscious decision when writing for the quartet?
Be Minor’ is essentially just a few bars of music but yes I wanted to write something that would make a good opener. It’s something a visiting composition teacher set us at the academy years ago. “What would be the first thing you would want to hear at a gig?”
‘Blue Fugates’ was my attempt to write a 12 bar blues that turned out a little weird. I like the idea of improvising on something that has an almost familiar feeling to it but is still a little challenging.
'Ro' comes across as a real big number, with the feeling that it may be an arrangement scaled down from a big band chart for a quartet. Is there a story behind this composition?
It was a quartet tune first by a long way! It turned into one of the easiest things to arrange for big band, I’m not sure why. I just played the big band arrangement with the Guildhall Big Band a few nights ago and they absolutely nailed it.
There's a great video of the brilliant guitarist and composer, Mary Halvorson talking about free jazz and composing on YouTube. I found it so inspiring I had to shut my laptop then immediately started trying to write something that later became ‘Ro’. Its named after one of my favourite characters from Star Trek.
You also have a monthly residency at The Vortex with your big band. Do you find a big difference in writing for such contrasting line ups as the big band and four piece ensemble?
Yes the big band is much louder! I’ve always struggled to write a large ensemble piece without having at least something that I know works on a smaller scale. I think if you do it that way round (small band to big band) it ends up having a sort of inner logic to it. And if it works really well in a small group then its simpler to arrange for big band. I’m pretty sure my favourite big band arrangers took this same approach. I like the process of chipping away at something and refining it over time.
New Ears is your debut album as leader of a band, but you have previously recorded a solo album, Live At The Ridgeway. Can you tell us about this album, and is it still available?
Yes it’s on Bandcamp along with all of ‘Two Rivers Records’ back catalogue. I also have a few hard copies I sell on gigs.
I really wanted to do a project that challenged me and got my foot in the door so to speak. Alya from Two Rivers came along and asked me if I wanted to record something around the same time. I did it in my living room in front of a live audience.
I was really into Eberhard Weber and Dave Holland’s solo albums. My album has no overdubs or electronics though, its just me and a bass. I really love when piano players play solo. I’m envious of the ability to play a complete piece of music on your own so I tried to emulate that by playing more on forms and songs than playing totally free.
From writing and performing with a big band, to your new quartet and solo double bass covers an awful lot of ground. How do you perceive the role of the bass in such a freewheeling music as jazz, and your approach to playing?
To me the bass is an instrument that makes others sound better. The role of the bass is to work with others to make the music sound good. The drums and bass relationship in jazz is one of the most exciting things in music.
The best thing about music is playing it with other people and some instruments are versatile enough to work in lots of different line ups and lots of different genres of music. The bass is definitely one of them.
How did you become interested in playing music and especially bass? I believe you started out on cello first?
My dad is a music teacher. My brother and sister are very creative and both did music to some level. I always wanted to be a musician but when I heard jazz and started learning what improvising was I was hooked.
I played cello for a long time but I love the double bass a lot more. Maybe if there were more (there are some great ones) improvising cellists in jazz I would have played it but I did my grade 8 cello exam and then put it back in it’s case. I can count the number of times I’ve played it since on one hand.
Because of the cello I heard a lot of classical music before I heard jazz properly. I really love the double bass and the only reason I didn’t start out on it is because my school didn’t have any. Maybe I saw one on TV or a film or something but I always wanted to play it.
Who would you say have been a particular influence on your playing and development as a musician?
Tough question. I suppose Thelonious Monk has been the biggest in the last five years. He has such a beautiful connection between his composing and his improvising. That’s something id like to explore with my own music a lot more. I think Charlie Haden played like this but didn’t write that many tunes. Maybe Dave Holland too.
I was part of a band called ‘Thelonious’ with Martin Speake and Hans Koller in which we tried to learn all of his compositions. It was like going to school again, I loved it. Weirdly I just realised a few days ago that it was the same lineup as this quartet; sax, trombone bass and drums.
And finally, plans for the future?
I want to record a live big band album next year (2020) and another small band record for the year after possibly with a quintet but I haven’t decided yet. I really wish I’d starting recording my music a lot earlier but now I have a tonne of music that I want to play and lots of ideas that excite me about the future.
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